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Friday, February 07, 2003 |
Welcome to the Level 42 Digest! Founded in 1993, this is a community of 612 fans of the band Level 42 and its music. The community interacts here via email, through many related web sites, and at periodic "Levelfest" gatherings held around the world. All subscribers are encouraged to participate and contribute new dialogue about their common interests. Sponsored by SiteSpect - web conversion optimization, a/b testing, split-run testing and multifactor testing system. |
| Topics for Friday, February 07, 2003 1 - Random nonsense - jt 2 - Guaranteed continued - Pete Willis 3 - stuff - Winston Walker 4 - Can't be bothered with a subject this early... - Daniel James 5 - The Ape - mark.summers1 6 - Virginity - mark.summers1 7 - My Hormones Are Racing - BARUA Cliff -CORPSEC/C&EA 8 - Guaranteed/Small Venues/Levelfests - Jackson, Lolita 9 - somewhat respectable pop - Eric Johnson 10 - The Ape - Rob van Aperen 11 - Original Line Up Autographs - Julie Willis 12 - Guaranteed & Trash - Richard Maybury 13 - Re: Record Collector Rare Price Guide - Alistair Ferguson 14 - Biggest fan in the world: Huge - Huge Rademaker 15 - i agree,i agree and more power to ya - Monique Williams 16 - Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE for 2/7/2003 - Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE 17 - The Verdict - Andrew Goodwin |
| 1 - Random nonsense |
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| From: | jt <jtraci @ yahoo.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:41:31 -0800 (PST) |
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| >could THE APE actually be one of the > (shock horror) BEST > tracks on the album ???? Yes. And that's not saying much. > - Record Collector Rare Record Price Guide 2004 Whoa, Looks like has a 'way-forward machine'... > They've obviously decided Level 42 are becoming less > and less collectible Well, alot of these things are based on what the market dictates, not the editors/writers. I would find it hard to think that Level42 collectables had the same 'market value' as they did many a year ago; not everyone is ready to hang onto bits and bobs from a band that, only recently (in name only) back in motion. And that motion is trouching out the same ol' same ol'. Which doesn't float far from "washed up" in many books. A new release _could_ change things. > The more you've spent, the bigger fan you are. um, no. That would fall more under gullible. > How can you not like a tune that has lines like > "black and white soon turn > to shades of grey" and refers to death as being > taken "in your box out > through the door"? True, although nothing compared to the Bryan Adams-esque "gguuuuaaaaarrrraaaannntttteeeeddd a plaaace inside my heartttttt..." shit... :/ Just heard that "The Doors" are getting back together. Seems impossible. This leads to the "what's in a name" theory. Clearly The Doors are not The Doors without Jim Morrison. Even John Densmore (original drummer, now being replaced by Stu Copeland who apparently is craving some stardom), refusing to take part in this, says this. This is appaling to me... And while to smaller degree we will always have the same kind of debate here... But as I say about the market dictating; this is basically all due to the ever dipping intelligence rate (while population skyrockets): people want the familiar. Even if it's not as familiar as they think. Em-bare-assing to be alive, sometimes... j __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com | ||
| 2 - Guaranteed continued |
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| From: | Pete Willis <peteburywillis @ hotmail.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:45:44 -0000 |
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Hi All
Good to see all the responses from my little
write up, good and bad.
I think I'm always right but I could be wrong every
now and then (the Wife certainly thinks that most of
the time!!)
I would say I don't see anything wrong with 'depressing' lyrics amongst the upbeat ones as I think life has it's ups
and downs and that would be where a writer gets the inspiration from. Also just
because someone writes a song doesn't always follow that their voice will be
best suited to it.
As I say I can't make anyone like it but I always
think another listen with an open mind and not putting it up against classics
like 'Level 42', 'Standing in the Light' etc.
That's unfair competition!!
Have to say I listened to comments on Her Big Day
and Set Me Up and a re-listen does make me think I should have given those
tracks a better write up too.
Like others I get into skipping tracks so
haven't properly listened to those for a bit.
I think I should have said I don't think they
are as good as some songs on the album but I do actually like them
still, honest guv.
Funnily enough you sometimes go and put on tracks
you haven't played for a bit and then really get back into them so maybe I'll be
blasting out Her Big Day and Set Me Up for a while now and be re-writing my
Guaranteed appraisel with them up amongst the other little
gems!
However I can't get on with the ape still, sorry
but I will keep going back just to see if it's an aquired taste that eventually
bites!!
cheers and enjoy the music
Pete
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| 3 - stuff |
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| From: | Winston Walker <winman42 @ comcast.net> |
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| Date: | Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:53:48 -0500 |
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| Dean, one of my fave singers if Michael Franks..great voice, simple singing..non of the vocal pyrotechnics that these younger singers seem to think is what makes singing great. anyway, he has a great song called 'HE TELLS HIMSELF HE"S HAPPY'. Check it out, because thats what your are doing with 'THE APE'. HAHAHA Love the band, even like most of Guaranteed, but that song just dies for me. ;-) Stu, it's not very difficulat at a;; to convert video to VCD format. Here are the basics you will need. 1. you need to get the video from your tape, to your HD, so you will need a capture card in your pc, or a capture device. They make cheap devices to do this via rca, or even USB cables. Or you can use a dvcam with firewiere if yu have that. 2. Then you need to convert the file tp the VCD standard. Nero burning rom will take the file and convert it for you, as it makes a VCD. There are also standalone programs to do this as well. My advice is to download a free copy of TMPGENC, it's a GREAT little, free encoder. 3. visit www.vcdhelp.com, they have plenty of tutorials on doing this stuff. Mikey, good to hear from you again. Look forward to your future postings. Win http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=winman42&type=O&sc=C&ls=T | ||
| 4 - Can't be bothered with a subject this early... |
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| From: | Daniel James <djames @ serv.net> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:01:01 -0800 |
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| > So in parting, could THE APE actually be one of the (shock horror) > BEST tracks on the album ???? No. > MIKEY HERE! Heya! Wondered where you'd gone to in hiding. Hope all is well.... > Who's not afraid to post the most they've spent for a Level 42 item? I seem to believe that in a fit of utter madness, I spent $40 for the yellow vinyl of the Chinese Way (for 88 live mind you, not for Chinese Way, although it is kind of a cool remix as I recall). > I look at Guaranteed as just another stage in their musical > development that made me see Mark and Mike as the core talent behind > the group. Curious statement. I find Gary's playing to be instrumental to this album. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of bringing up the he vs. who topic here, but I think Guaranteed would have been a completely different album without his drumming (and apparently without his keyboard work). Bright spots like, "If You Were Mine" wouldn't shine... I'm also surprised to see so many people bash this album. It does have some low points (I think The Ape and Her Big Day are not the best tunes the band has done) but I think this is a very strong album overall. People who don't care for it must be really only attracted to the band's earlier jazz/funk days. I thought it was a great progression for them into a credible 'rock' band. I've heard this album playing countless times in music shops and I think it may be this album overall that made Level 42 a "musician's" band if you get my meaning. That said, I also prefer their earlier albums :) | ||
| 5 - The Ape |
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| From: | mark.summers1 <mark.summers1 @ ntlworld.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:02:26 -1000 |
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| I think I read The Ape was recorded in one take (or at least the drums were), so it deserves a little bit of credit I suppose. Mark Summers | ||
| 6 - Virginity |
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| From: | mark.summers1 <mark.summers1 @ ntlworld.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -1000 |
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| Has anyone lost their virginity while listening to L42? I did to World Machine many moons ago. (Ok, I only lasted until Something About You!). Mark Summers :o) | ||
| 7 - My Hormones Are Racing |
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| From: | BARUA Cliff -CORPSEC/C&EA <cliff.barua @ opg.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:37:37 -0500 |
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| Alex claimed: Not to mention the killer groove and the fact that it's Mike's most testosterone-laden vocal track of their entire repertoire. I ask: So what would Mike's most estrogen-laden vocal track be? I'll go with Starchild. I find I have to wear my 1982 Jordache jeans (inserting an extra pair of socks for effect) to reach the high notes on that one. Cliff Barua - Toronto | ||
| 8 - Guaranteed/Small Venues/Levelfests |
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| From: | Jackson, Lolita <Lolita.Jackson @ morganstanley.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:51:36 -0500 |
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| Great digests lately - I have a few comments: * <It is good to see different opinions and healthy debate on Level 42's music within the forum and I hope that someday (maybe later on this year?) people from the forum can meet up and we could have our own Level 42 type of Bash?> This is done all the time! I don't know if the person who wrote this belongs to the Web Digest, but there is a section called Levelfests that is specifically set up to help people plan gatherings. There is actually one this weekend in Southern California, and people are flying in from all over for it. We have had them in NY, Las Vegas [several], London, the Netherlands, Spain - the list goes on. There is usually a 'Britfest' each year somewhere in England that incorporates tribute bands, memorabilia, videos, etc. that is treated as a mini-convention and it generally occurs at the same time the group is touring. Stay tuned for more info... * I agree with the small venue comment. I have thankfully made up for lost time in the past four years [I never saw any form of the band live until 1999] and have now attended lots of shows, and I have to say that my favorite was in Bilston. Not because it was a nice venue [it wasn't] but because it was intimate. Mark was having a lot of fun, talking to the audience, and it made me think of what they must have been like in the early days. * I'm sorry, but I will never like Guaranteed. I try and try, but I can't. Same thing with SATS - I like a few songs, but would not choose to listen to either of those CDs all the way through without skipping some tracks [thank goodness for the program button on CD players]. So why do I own them? Because I am a completist, and I would bet there are a lot of others of you like me. If I like a group, I will purchase everything they have ever done in order to hear the evolution of their sound. I own everything from Sade, Incognito, Brand New Heavies, Level 42 and a few others. As The Nightfly said, I need to listen to the CDs I don't like once every few years to see if I could have been wrong about them. With Guaranteed and SATS, I'm not. Lolita **** Important Notice to Recipients **** It is important that you do not use e-mail to request, authorize or effect the purchase or sale of any security or commodity, to send fund transfer instructions, or to effect any other transactions. Any such request, orders, or instructions that you send will not be accepted and will not be processed by Morgan Stanley. **************************************** | ||
| 9 - somewhat respectable pop |
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| From: | Eric Johnson <pgi1 @ frontpanels.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:17:22 -0500 |
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I know we keep discussing older and newer Level 42
material and how Phil was disenchanted with the pop direction the newer stuff
was headed. However it definitely wasn't the worst pop ever written. The nice
thing is these guys are probably making some good royalties off of WM and RITF.
And guess what: I think they deserve it! (for all the hard work of the for the
albums leading up to these).
Anybody have any idea what these guys are pulling in, in terms of royalties these days???
These guys can be somewhat proud of their material
even though I don't like some of it. | ||
| 10 - The Ape |
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| From: | Rob van Aperen <rob @ vanaperen.nl> |
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| Date: | Thu, 06 Feb 2003 16:20:01 +0100 |
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| Hi everyone, Maybe some people remember I did a "Level 42 flop list" about two years ago (the idea of which some people did not understand) and a couple of songs were mentioned 2 or 3 times, but The Ape was mentioned 15 (!) times! By the way, I feel it is one of the three of four that should never have been written. Best, Rob | ||
| 11 - Original Line Up Autographs |
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| From: | Julie Willis <juliewillis @ btinternet.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:47:04 -0000 |
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Hello! This is my first time actually writing
into the Digest, but I have been receiving it and reading it with great interest
for a couple of months.
I have an original line up
autographed black and white photo of the band (circa 1986) - how much would
that be worth? (NOT that I am selling!)
Cheers
Julie. | ||
| 12 - Guaranteed & Trash |
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| From: | Richard Maybury <rsmaybury @ tiscali.co.uk> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:08:26 -0000 |
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Interesting comments of late. I think the
"Guaranteed" is one of the weaker L42 albums. I think maybe "The Ape" should
have stayed as an instrumental and maybe "All She Wants" should have been on the
album. Most tracks I like, but I think "Lasso The Moon" is a Guaranteed's
version of "Three Words" and is my least favourite track on the
album.
Whilst Trash which was recorded from the early to
mid nineties, sounds much funkier. Even though these are demos, they still sound
good and I'd love to get my hands on Trash Vol 2 , if it ever comes out. When
Trash came out a lot of people loved the first 5 songs and then slowly they grew
into the other tracks on the album. An album of two halves !
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| 13 - Re: Record Collector Rare Price Guide |
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| From: | Alistair Ferguson <alistairfiggie @ alistairfiggie.screaming.net> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:19:00 -0000 |
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Loz.
The Record Collector Price Guide
is exactly that, a guide......not a be all and end all in pricing records.
Market values for the discs do change with the artists popularity, and
unfortunately when they die. I'm sure many Bee Gee collections will be on sale
in the coming months, as a result of this trend, sad fact but true.
Level 42 sadly are not the force
they once were on the record buying market, with all the white labels and remix
12" that they fed us over the years. However I do believe that the latest
discography has way under valued their material. Most "completists" know that
Sandstorm is well worth £100 today. If you get it cheaper then "you've won a
watch". This latest list has deleted a lot of rare items from the previous
list of 2 years ago. and the one 2 years prior to that. I think that's more to
do with printing costs of the book than actual value. RC suggest that if it's
not on the list then it's worth less than £4. If you collect more than one
artist you soon realise that they miss many items of value on most
discographies. It's only as good as the people that research the artist, and not
all are fans of that band / group.
In over 20 years of buying the
RC magazine and guide, it became obvious that many of RC's discographies have pricing errors, most fans of any artist
know the true value of that certain gem they are missing from their collection.
It can sometimes be well undervalued by RC, and just as easily overpriced too.
Dealers at record fairs tend to
inflate their prices as they have costs to cover. It may be easier to get the
records there, but you usually pay top dollar for the privilege of buying it.
Isn't it more fun to go digging at second hand shops and boot sales to unearth
that one you've always wanted. For me it's the thrill of finding it on your own.
Just don't take the RC price guide as
gospel. | ||
| 14 - Biggest fan in the world: Huge |
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| From: | Huge Rademaker <level42 @ rademaker-42.myweb.nl> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:29:36 +0100 |
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| Hi all, > 5 - What Price, Paradise > From: EMIKATIE @ aol.com <EMIKATIE @ aol.com> > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:00:53 EST > Who's not afraid to post the most they've spent for a Level 42 item? > I'll go first. I seem to recall I spent around $35 for the 12" picture disc > of Out of Sight, Out of Mind. > Several issues ago, there was talk on what constituted a fan. Let your > money do the talking. The more you've spent, the bigger fan you are. Well JM, dunno... I've got this cardboard deskstand with Mark on it endorsing 606 Funkmaster strings. I have no idea how rare it is, but many years ago I begged the shopowner (of the shop were I used to buy the best strings in the world; it is a shame they don't make those anymore) to give it to me and he did. So that makes me a lousy fan, huh? You might have guessed allready: I do not agree with your thesis. Bass regards, Huge | ||
| 15 - i agree,i agree and more power to ya |
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| From: | Monique Williams <mowllms @ yahoo.com> |
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| Date: | Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:31:22 -0800 (PST) |
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| pete,A Kinder Eye is one of the most beautiful tunes that Level 42 has put out.the music and lyrics paint a renaissance-type picture for me(old world italy)just close your eyes and imagine...the ape,i would have to go with will on this one(i love Cout de ^^^ also).would sound great in concert! GOOD LUCK interCHEMISTRY!peace>mo __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com | ||
| 16 - Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE for 2/7/2003 |
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| From: | Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE <level42-admin @ worldmachine.com> |
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| Date: | Fri, 7 Feb 2003 05:50:50 -0500 |
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Welcome to the Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE! Shopping for Level 42 items on the net? Let the Level 42 Digest be your sales associate! By scanning and publishing each day's sale items from Amazon.com, GEMM and Ebay, the Level 42 Digest MARKETPLACE helps keep you tuned in to what's available. As always, if you have any suggestions for improvements or additional content, please email us at level42-admin @ worldmachine . com. Happy shopping! :) 
Most Expensive Level 42 Items on eBay (as of 5:50:31 AM, 2/7/2003)
Soonest-To-End Level 42 Items on eBay (as of 5:50:50 AM, 2/7/2003)
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| 17 - The Verdict |
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| From: | Andrew Goodwin <nightfly83 @ hotmail.com> |
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| Date: | Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:53:51 +0000 |
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| I was e-mailing a friend of mine earlier who has a 4 in his e-mail address, and my hand slipped and I typed 42 instead! No really! And yesterday a woman standing outside my office said she’d do her “level best” to get a piece of work finished. Honest! Sorry, for a moment there I thought I was on the Web Digest. OK, since dissection of Guaranteed seems to be the order of the day... Guaranteed: As someone said the other day, there’s a suspicion of the chugging rhythm of Lessons In Love. Well, if it was an attempt to replicate those three minutes of pure pop magic, someone should have thought to include a hook somewhere. The best of it is the chorus, and that’s just about strong enough to be a middle eight or sixteen bars. As for the lyric, it sets the tone for much of the album – bland slush. 4/10 Overtime: At least this is starting to sound more like Level 42. Bit of a holding, water-treading verse, but the strong chorus required on the back of that is at least there. Shame Gary Barnacle doesn’t turn up right until the end, when he would surely have been more use in the break in the middle. 6/10 Her Big Day: What a mess. Whose idea was the screeching synth? Only the solos, presumably Badarou followed by Lindup, come close to salvaging anything musically. As for the lyric... I’m not averse to a little storytelling, weird though something as kitchen sink as this sounds on a Level 42 album, but for sheer bathos the final line takes some beating. 2/10 Seven Years: Probably my favourite track on the album, as Mark King remembers he’s a great bass player. Shame Holdsworth comes along and noodles aimlessly all over the end, but that’s a minor quibble. 7/10 Set Me Up: Friesen wrote... "Set Me Up" is the best tune on the disc! How can you not like a tune that has lines like "black and white soon turn to shades of grey" and refers to death as being taken "in your box out through the door"? Not to mention the killer groove and the fact that it's Mike's most testosterone-laden vocal track of their entire repertoire. He’s so good at being sarcastic that sometimes even I think he’s serious. I particularly like the way he highlights two of the tracks particular weaknesses – its prosaic lyric and Lindup’s frankly embarrassing attempt to beef up – as strengths. Woeful. 2/10 The Ape: As if it couldn’t get any worse, here lumbers The Ape to reach a new nadir. They got somebody in specially to write this pap?! 1/10 My Father’s Shoes: First decent lyric on the album, “these soles are stained from walking on the dreams of better men” being probably the stand-out line. The twangy approach was probably a mistake though, and ultimately irritates me too much. 5/10 A Kinder Eye: A lot of praise for this one lately, but I don’t see it myself. It slides in unnoticed, sits there in the background inoffensively and shuffles off without making an impression at all. And quite what Holdsworth’s horrible screech is doing on a track like this at all beats me. 4/10 She Can’t Help Herself: There’s the bones of a good song here, if it had been produced in a completely different way – more subtle drumming, more subtle guitar work... Hang on, I know just the band that could have done justice to it! 5/10 If You Were Mine: Off wails Holdsworth from the first bar again, and every time I think ‘enough already’. Less is more, you know? And like so much on this album, without actually being wildly offensive this is just workmanlike and uninspired. Guaranteed is an album full of filler tracks like this, stuff which should never have got beyond being a B side. It’s far, far too busy. I’m not disputing the musicianship of Husband and Holdsworth, all I’m saying is that between them they managed to smother almost an entire album on which they should never have been asked to play. 3/10 Lasso The Moon: This is the kind of lyric Lindup needs to be singing. Couple of chords short of a decent tune though. 5/10 With A Little Love: Hideous. Sentimental pap over a noisy, meandering backing track. A fitting finale to a fairly dismal listening experience. 2/10 So there you have it. I was as kind as I could be, if anything erring on the side of generosity. 46/120, or 38%. That’s not even a pass. >3 - Record Collector Rare Record Price Guide 2004 >From: Laurence Green <laurence.green @ scottwilson.com> > >Anyone seem the new RC rare record price guide yet? Absolute madness!!! I don’t know whether PeteThirdPromotionPlaceDamnHimWillis (or indeed anyone else who sells records for a living or sideline) would agree, but I find the Record Collector guide the most bizarre and arbitrary of publications. First thing I checked this time was to make sure they’d got the Difford & Tilbrook CD in – no sign of it. This is an album which regularly goes for 60 or 70 quid on eBay, in fact there’s one there at the moment at $51 with four days to go. And yet they seriously think people will still pay 35 quid for a Spice Girls Wannabe promo CD. Their other problem is their failure to acknowledge that, in my experience at least, values for bands like Queen are dipping because the world and his uncle knows they’re collectable and is jumping on the bandwagon. >They've obviously decided Level 42 are becoming less and less collectible I can only assume they’re still basing their prices on what the average second hand dealer in the market picking up passing trade can expect to get, whereas collecting has moved way beyond that. Then again, would the average record seller know where to go to get the best price for his stock anyway? I’m sure I could get a great price for this here shaped Nicko McBrain picture disc if I knew where to offer it, but I haven’t got a clue. And if I did I’m not sure I’d want to go there. >5 - What Price, Paradise >From: EMIKATIE @ aol.com <EMIKATIE @ aol.com> > >Who's not afraid to post the most they've spent for a Level 42 item? It was for the re-issue of The Early Tapes and the first album. I think it was 12.99, but it may have been as much as 13.99. This may seem strange from one who tries to supplement his income selling collectables, but I’ve never understood record collecting for the sake of the items rather than the music. There are people here with huge, repetitious Level 42 collections who, from my perspective, could have spent their time and money better gaining a much more interesting and varied collection of music. They might have discovered something they liked just as much, if not more. Each to their own, I guess. And before anyone says it, I know there are plenty of people with large Level 42 collections who love everything from thrash metal to chamber music, but my point that the obsessives miss out remains valid. >8 - Guaranteed >From: Dannymkavanagh @ aol.com <Dannymkavanagh @ aol.com> > >Perusal of earlier posts written by fans suggest that in some cases >'Guaranteed' was the first song/album that they heard by Level 42 and as a >result bought the earlier music released by the band. If that’s true, it’s astounding. If I’d heard Guaranteed first I’d never have bought another Level 42 album. In fact, I think many of us who came to it chronologically give it more time than we would simply because it’s by a band we’d loved for 10 years by then. >It is good to see different opinions and healthy debate on Level 42's music >within the forum and I hope that someday (maybe later on this year?) people >from the forum can meet up and we could have our own Level 42 type of Bash? Yes, count me in for the Guaranteed Weekender. >12 - Disappointed Listening & Size Does Matter >From: jt <jtraci @ yahoo.com> > >I tend not go to many concerts anymore, I've seen The Red Hot CHili Peppers in a small small club, that was cool. I've seen Tori Amos in a church and a small club, cool. Prince in a club. Pah, last year I saw Tim Garland, Joe Locke and the extraordinary Geoff Keezer at the Holywell Music Rooms. Now THAT is a venue. As Garland said, ‘I wonder whether Mozart had the same trouble with the one-way system getting here as we did.’ AG PS I’ve tried to whip this in after the Marketplace to minimise scrolling for those of you who avoid my posts. I am a truly benevolent man. _________________________________________________________________ Worried what your kids see online? Protect them better with MSN 8 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=186&DI=1059 |
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