Level 42 Digest for Friday, December 20, 2002

Friday, December 20, 2002

Welcome to the Level 42 Digest! This is a community based around fans of the band Level 42 and its music. The community interacts here via email, through many related web sites, and through periodic "Levelfest" gatherings held around the world. All subscribers are encouraged to participate and contribute new dialogue about their common interests.

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Today's Topics

  1 · Re: Phil vs Gary · Terry_Arnett @ ryder.com
  2 · Backing tracks - again! · James Watkins
  3 · The Gary Debate · Steve Randall
  4 · Heated?!! · Mr David F Jacobs
  5 · Commercial Tour vs Diehards Tour · Pete Willis
  6 · various comments to 19 Dezember · jt
  7 · backing tracks? · Winman42
  8 · subscriber count and "coming soon" schtuff · Eric J. Hansen
  9 · Re: New Material? Moment of Level 42 Discovery · Matt Rice
  10 · OK Eric, Warm then. · mark collins
  11 · re: Gary, "other stuff" and crazy chops · Eric J. Hansen
  12 · Fly in the ointment · Eric J. Hansen
  13 · Rebel Without A Cause · Andrew Goodwin
  14 · New album · DonZipf @ aol.com

1 · Re: Phil vs Gary
From:	Terry_Arnett @ ryder.com <Terry_Arnett @ ryder.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:22:59 +0000	[top]
Chris. I could not agree more with you. Gary is a close friend of mine - and, yes, he IS one of the nicest, sincere, and modest people I have EVER had the pleasure to meet. You may have seen my defence of Gary on the Digest forums. I wholeheartedly agree that the fans of LEVEL 42 must stop looking back on the past, and look forward to the future. There have been quite a few people who have slated the current line up, and for the use of the name LEVEL42. But, we are living in "the here and now" and we ALL must look to the future. But, for every so-called "fan" who has slated them - there are tens of real "fans" who totally disagree - me included! Mark has always said that he wanted Gary in the band from early on. In 1987 he was granted his wish. I am so glad that Gary is in the band - and that he has the backing of some very talented musicians in Nathan, Lyndon and Sean. I don't think Mark could have asked for more - and I for one will ALWAYS deem Level 42 as THE band. Let's face it. Take a look at Simple Minds - how many line up changes have they had? And still they sound like Simple Minds - and the fans have reciprocated by keeping their alliegence to the band - for that is what TRUE fans WOULD do! I will always carry the flag for Level 42. Let's start looking ahead - and support the band any way that we can. Yours Truly - Terry Arnett In Reply to... From: Chris Johnson <cjohnson8972 @ btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:07:46 -0000 To all you so called True Loyal L42 Fans out there that are still living in the past, who want to compare Phil to Gary, and slag Gary off! Don't you think Mark could get anybody in the hot seat? he chooses Gary for his style of playing, powerful, explosive yet subtle & dynamic, ok totally different to Phil's more layed back groove playing.(I'm sure the drummers amongst you appreciate both styles?) Anyone noticed Mark's style of drumming on Influences & Trash? very Gary as opposed to Phil (not knocking Phil!) Phil is past tense, Gary is now!! For anyone that hasn't met Gary, you couldn't wish for a nicer, so modest bloke....(I'm sure people who have can back me up on that.) I've said my peace now, let's try & think of the positives to talk about for a change!! Chris.

2 · Backing tracks - again!
From:	James Watkins <james @ bpbaxter.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:35:17 -0000	[top]
Hi all, <Quote I’m afraid to say that we’ve had backing tracks since before the Running In The Family album Unquote. Wich kind of bt were used then ?; is it done by fi keyboards or minidiscs ?> It’s bound to be sequencer based, although I couldn’t tell you one hundred percent. If you listen to some live tracks (Hot Water on Live At Wembley is a good example), you can hear a bass synth playing the bass line without any input from Mark or Mike. Now listen to something a lot earlier, and the sound is a lot more raw, as there is no “padding out” of the sound with what I have referred to as backing tracks. When I say backing track, I don’t mean something that is played along to karaoke style, but just something that adds depth to the sound. I prefer it without, but that’s just my opinion. I’m not saying that every track played live today has a backing track (or padding out or whatever you want to call it). If you listen to Sooner Or Later live, there isn’t much going on (if anything) apart from what is being played live. That’s actually one of my favourite live tracks. At the end of the day it’s just a question of producing a fuller sound. Some people prefer this, others don’t. And as I won’t be near this computer to be able to post for a while, may I wish everybody a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Jimbo

3 · The Gary Debate
From:	Steve Randall <Steve.Randall @ mouchel.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:40:58 +0000	[top]
Chris Johnson's provocative "Phil is past tense, Gary is now!" is probably, sadly true. But we all know they are like chalk and cheese. All I will add is my old point that Gary does do other stuff, his jazz trio, where he plays piano! Has anyone ever got to see them? And just take a look (whoops there's a cue for a song) at "If you were mine" on the live wembley video. It's unbelievable. It's a marvelous enough song to have written, let alone the drumming. How does he he get round all those toms in one bar in the solo? The trio don't seem to be doing much at present however, and I missed them in Cambridge a year or so ago. Steve Randall http://www.newgaryhusbandtrio.com The information in this e-mail is confidential and intended to be solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain copyright and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the addressee (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee) please e-mail us at postmaster @ mouchel.com and delete the message from your computer; copying, distribution, use or disclosure of its contents is strictly prohibited. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption no responsibility is accepted for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice contained in any e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. In addition, no liability or responsibility is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Please note that for business purposes, outgoing and incoming emails from and to the company may be monitored and recorded. Mouchel Consulting Ltd, Registered Office : West Hall, Parvis Road, West Byfleet, Surrey UK KT14 6EZ Registered No : 1686040

4 · Heated?!!
From:	Mr David F Jacobs <man_of_funk @ hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:43:03 -0000	[top]
Level 42 Digest for Thursday, December 19, 2002 Hi all! Heated discussions? I agree with Eric, not heated enough! I don't think anyone was really knocking Gary or Lyndon, as such - just voicing their preference to the original members, which is fair enough. They're all really talented guys and I learn something new, whether big or small from seeing them play each time! As I said before, in a perfect world I'm sure we'd all like to see the original memebers doing their thing, but for now this is fine for me! They do a great job reproducing all the songs live. That's just my humble opinion. I think ALL the band do a great job, and whilst I prefer the older more obscure tracks, and Marks' solo stuff - the masses I guess want to hear the more well known ones. Marks choice to play the string of "knackered old hits" again, was to be expected I guess - they're great songs! I guess this marks the difference between people who like the music, and die hard fans (whatever that means)?! It's always a compromise to satisfy everyone. I'd love to hear stuff like "Out of Sight, Microkid, The Machine Stops, Man, Gresham Blues (wouldn't that be a good tribute to Alan Murphy?!), yes - Romance! There's so many good tracks!! I can think of no greater compliment for artists to receive the kind of following that Level 42 have enjoyed all these years! To see the things people brought for Mark to sign recently, basses, posters - you name it, it must be pretty awe inspiring for him. - What's the weirdest thing anyones' got them to sign?!! Is there a central collection to view on the web? Perhaps an addition to the Level 42 site, Morgan?! None of them were or are ego-meisters, just really nice people. I cannot think of a nicer group of musicians to want to go and see time and time again. If i was a time traveller I'd love to go back to the early days and see it all first hand, as I was too young to appreciate it - what a privilage it must have been for those of you who have had this pleasure! - If Dr Who is on this Digest, I'll be your new assistant! ;) However, I've never really been disappointed with gigs post 1987, and having spoken to a few of the various members "out of the arena" as such, I can assure all that they really are truly top blokes, as I'm sure anyone will confirm! For instance Jakko, he reads EVERY email, and endeavours to always reply! The fanclub was funded by the band! Not all bands are like this you know! Happy listenening! - I'll have to revisit those tracks again now I've mentioned them, as it's got me all excited! Best regards Dave Jacobs

5 · Commercial Tour vs Diehards Tour
From:	Pete Willis <peteburywillis @ hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:06:11 -0000	[top]
Hi All Just continuing the debate on the recent tour (boo hiss. Oi, quiet at the back I'm trying to make a point!) If Mark had been just trying to attract the diehard digesters then I would agree the set list he used might be a bit 'commercial' However he took out a decent countrywide tour and with some good sized venues. Now to fill those he would need more than just the diehards and he would need to attract the man and woman in the street who fondly remembers singles by them but maybe never even bought a record of Level 42 before. Funnily enough one of my less favourite tracks is 'Running in the Family' but it got the biggest reception at the gig I went too and I must admit they gave a stonking performance of it too. Anyway that proves that the singles went down well with the general audience anyway. Now if someone wants to fund Mark and the boys to do a tour of the best of album tracks I'm sure he'd listen but meanwhile it makes complete commercial sense to do a mix. I look at my music business in the same way. If I was to sell only items by artists I like then I wouldn't be in business very long. Though I have a very varied music taste I'd like to add!! All the music and vocals sounded Live to me, though if they use a tiny bit of backing track enhancement then I can live with that. Anyway if I don't get to write in again I trust you all have a great Christmas Pete www.PETEWILLISMUSIC.co.uk

6 · various comments to 19 Dezember
From:	jt <jtraci @ yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:15:57 -0800 (PST)	[top]
> Don't you think Mark could get anybody in the hot > seat? um, no. Mark can possibly get anybody that will take the cheap pay. This band obviously doesn't have the drawing power (ie. finacial power) as alot of gigs out there. Or studio sessions. The drummer would also have to be comfortable being in a band where there seems to be very little (read: none) creative OUTput. And possibly not too much INput if an OUTput ever actually gets going. And the playing the same damn thing every night would hardly appeal to any "musician" I ever knew. >For anyone that hasn't > met Gary, you couldn't wish for a nicer, so modest > bloke....(I'm sure people who have can back me up on > that.) here here, having the pleasure to meet him a few weeks in Zurich, damn nice guy. >There is a gulf in talent between Mike > and Lyndon. Ocean, more like it. > Almost There, Love Games, To Be With You Again, > Seven Days, Dream Crazy, > Children Say, Its Over, The Sunbed Song, Kansas City > Milkman, The Sun Goes > Down, Starchild, Running In The Family, Lessons In > Love, Something About > You, Hot Water and The Chinese Way. yes, the official Laminated Set-List. > list, I'm just saying it's one designed in essence > to appeal to people who > own one Greatest Hits CD. Yep. And it's a shame that some for the tunes weren't at least occasionally flopped around. Yes, the near- hits need to be played, as that's the way it's billed, but Seven Days (which kinda brings the energy of the crowd (if there is any) down) could have easily been traded for a variety in the stagnant Laminated set-list. > >There WILL be a new album in 2003--I'll take bets > from any doubters. > > I'll have a piece of that action. yeah, me three. There is a) apparently no new stuff written (and if there is, I see little good in MK hiding the fact, and b) no record deal. theories could be: 1) MK is creatively void (which I kinda doubt) 2) MK is just intent on milking the greatest hits shit and cashing his check. 3) this current line-up doesn't have the ability to pen anythig worth listening to (I do believe this one) 4) MK, deep down, knows that this ISN'T Level 42 and doesn't mind touring that way, but to record/release a record goes againt his moral judgement e) MK waits for his parents to have more children so that he can bring them into the band too. ciao, j __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

7 · backing tracks?
From:	Winman42 <winman42 @ comcast.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:50:30 -0500	[top]
Uh, Level 42 has never played with backing tracks, to the best of my knowledge. I think folks are saying 'backing tracks', when the mean a sequencer. There are sequenced keyboard lines and a click track for Gary to play to. Without a second keyboard player, it's sorta impossible to do something like HOT WATER. I cant imagine the grief a player would have to stand there and play that synth vass line for 7 minutes!! ;-) Now, granted the could probably rework some lines, so LYndon is more busy on some tracks, but i guess it all evens out in the end. Win http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=winman42&type=O&sc=C&ls=T

8 · subscriber count and "coming soon" schtuff
From:	Eric J. Hansen <ehansen @ worldmachine.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:37:44 -0500 (EST)	[top]
FYI, to date we have 222 subscribers.... not bad considering that these are all self-initiated subcription requests. Unfortunately the mailing list software doesn't let me include this statistic automatically in the Digest header (like the old software did). BTW, "coming soon": the Digest will be automatically uploaded to the website (www.worldmachine.com/level42) each day, so that the web homepage is the latest mailing. So, you can check it online or via email, whichever you like. I'm putting together some code to de-HTML-ize the email addresses for the web page version, in an attempt to discourage email/spam harvesters. adios, Eric

9 · Re: New Material? Moment of Level 42 Discovery
From:	Matt Rice <rice @ geog.ucsb.edu>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:55:13 -0800	[top]
Nice job on the new e-mail digest Eric. While sparing everyone else the maudlin sentiments, I missed the old e-mail digest and welcome it's present reincarnation. > Let's not forget that we are all here for a common reason, > the fact that at some point we found that the music of > Level 42 had become important to us. We must all remember > that particular moment, that track, be it from the 'B' side > of some early single release (The Return Of The Handsome Rugged > Man, maybe?) or from one of the albums , and contemplate the lyrics > and music that made us stop and think, 'I like that', My 'moment of discovery' for Level 42 was about 1987, while listening to the UK version of World Machine on my friend's audiophile-quality stereo gear. The sophistication of the music, e.g., counterpoint, layered vocals, jazz-based chord voicings, and groove converted me instantly but the thing I was really blown away by was the tight drumming and nice kick bass coming right through the speakers. Phil can really lay down a groove. Phil's groove combined with the nice audio quality and the good stereo gear was a watershed moment for me. I gained an appreciation for good drumming and particularly for high-quality recordings -- a preference that has led to my acquisition of many a Steely Dan album. As AG mentioned yesterday, Steely Dan have an album due out next year sometime, engineered by the one and only pluperfect wizard of hi-fidelity, Roger Nichols. I will certainly be waiting for that one. Whether or not the current incarnation of "Level 42" puts out an album in 2003 is yet to be seen. I would think it more likely that the ever intransigent and enigmatic Becker and Fagen duo will beat them to it. With regard to the Phil vs. Gary thing, I like both but really identify more with Phil's style -- understated, laid back, but tight. Phil certainly gets too little credit for his contributions to the Level 42 sound. I also feel that Mike's contributions to Level 42 are undervalued, particularly the way he crafted exquisite rhythmic ornaments and counterpoint for Mark and Phil's playing. In my estimation, Mike was the glue that held Level 42 together on many levels. Although Mark was the frontman, it was Mike (and Phil) that gave Level 42 its appeal and sophistication. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see Mark danciung out in front of the microphone than Mike. I'd just like to see a more equitable assessment and evaluation of the contributions of the other members. A good example is Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. Even though Roy and Victor Wooten aren't the front men, they are widely respected and credited for jointly creating the Flecktone's sound. A related hypothesis about Level 42's appeal is that 3 of the 4 original members were percussionists by training (Mike with the most extensive formal training) and hence the significant rhythmic sensibility created jointly by the group members. This rhythmic sensibility that was several 'levels' above the norm for a post-funk 80's pop fusion band. On another note, here are some artists I listen to regularly that I have discovered or re-discovered through the digest: Steely Dan, Incognito, Jamiroqui, Bela Fleck, Edgar Meyer, Jason Rebello, etc. . . I can recommend all of these as worthwhile. Other artists I am fond of that haven't been mentioned much: Ahmad Jamal, Julian Bream, Joshua Bell, Yellowjackets, and Joni Mitchell (how's that for eclectic?). Matt Rice -- Matt Rice, Graduate Research Assistant National Center for Geographic Information and Analysis UCSB Department of Geography +1 805 893 8652 (phone) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 +1 805 893 8617 (fax) rice @ geog.ucsb.edu http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~rice

10 · OK Eric, Warm then.
From:	mark collins <sub.42 @ ntlworld.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:32:59 -0000	[top]
OK Eric, maybe just warm, but isn't it fun? The mere fact that you responded gives me a purpose to keep tapping away at the keyboard, and who knows, maybe add a little to the community on the end of the 'send/receive button. Anyway, I take it that AG has more than a little history on the Digest? Maybe he's not noticed the majority/minority thing. Or is it the 'joker' syndrome? Still, gives us more than a few words to say, anyway, who can resist a good banter, or is that too anglicised for some? Speaking of which, can you tell me if he's had a cold recently, I've heard that the latest flu & cold remedies can have some odd side effects, namely the talking of utter horse s**t ( borrowed from the spare two months supply) and being envious of persons far greater than their dim witted persona can ever hope to stand in the shadow of! (That's an insult, if you didn't know) They may also happen to have owned the odd mansion or two, or the odd cafe -bar, and have people tapping on computers late into the night because they just happen to be talented. Or is that just misdirected jealousy fired by the desire to have a more interesting life, similar to the one that they seem intent on criticizing? Or is it case of over-inflated ego again, amalgamated with flat-line charisma? Is it warm enough yet? Paul, I salute you! Eric, I thank you. Are we cooking with gas yet?

11 · re: Gary, "other stuff" and crazy chops
From:	Eric J. Hansen <ehansen @ worldmachine.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:59:19 -0500 (EST)	[top]
On the topic of Gary Husband and the other stuff that he has his hands in... I saw Gary with the Billy Cobham band in Cambridge, MA last fall. Gary played keyboards, and can only be articulately described as "full on, totally insane." From my experience, his keyboard chops are as strong as his drumming, and although I have to admit that his style is not 100% my cup of tea, it is clear that he's a very, very talented musician with a broad range of capabilities. -Eric

12 · Fly in the ointment
From:	Eric J. Hansen <ehansen @ worldmachine.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0500 (EST)	[top]
Mark Collins writes: > Anyway, I take it that AG has more than a little history on the > Digest? Maybe he's not noticed the majority/minority thing. Or is it the > 'joker' syndrome? To pull aside my vail of sarcasm for a second, yes, AG is an old timer on the original Digest, and dare I say beloved for his whit and cynicism. I always enjoy his postings (at least the 5% that I can actually comprehend.) Anyways, now back to the regularly scheduled AG floggings... -Eric

13 · Rebel Without A Cause
From:	Andrew Goodwin <nightfly83 @ hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:30:03 +0000	[top]
>2 Veen, Willem van der >From: Veen, Willem van der < <mailto:w.van_der_veen @ services.nedtrain.nl> >w.van_der_veen @ services.nedtrain.nl> > >can tell you Sting's new album will be in september 2003 ! Do you think he'll allow Jason Rebello more than one solo? He seems to have disappeared as a solo artist, if anyone knows different please let me know. >3 Phil vs Gary. >From: Chris Johnson < <mailto:cjohnson8972 @ btinternet.com> >cjohnson8972 @ btinternet.com> > >To all you so called True Loyal L42 Fans out there that are >still living in the past, who want to compare Phil to Gary, and slag Gary >off! Don't you think Mark could get anybody in the hot seat? Er, no. Next question? I imagine Mark uses Gary because he's a decent drummer, a brief former band member and a mate. But he's not high on subtlety, is he? >7 New Material? >From: mark collins < <mailto:mark.collins70 @ ntlworld.com> >mark.collins70 @ ntlworld.com> > >Well, it's all a little heated in here, is it not? Heated? We haven't even got started yet! >re: "heated" >From: Eric J. Hansen < <mailto:ehansen @ worldmachine.com> >ehansen @ worldmachine.com> > >Heated...? HEATED???!!! Not nearly HEATED enough, >I'd say! This is what I reminisce about the old Digest... HEATED >discussion with a bit of fair-play thrown in for good measure See? And that's from the bloke who invented computers or something. >(and of course the good-natured folks, AG excluded). Has anybody else noticed the difference between the old Digest 'never say boo to a goose' Hansen and the new Digest 'larging it' Hansen? Is he going through primal therapy or something? You'd never guess he's been begging me these last eight months to give him a reason to revive this thing. Anyway, what's with all this formatting stuff? I get this sent to hotmail, forward it on to my work e-mail so I can peruse it at my leisure, and suddenly it's all amps and <top>s. I'm getting middots before my eyes. You people and your modern technology. AG _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

14 · New album
From:	DonZipf @ aol.com <DonZipf @ aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:44:38 EST	[top]
> Yes but Don, didn't MK say on various occasions this year that new > material wasn't his priority for the immediate future, despite the carrot > that we were dangled this time last year. Dean, haven't we long-since learned that what Mark says in interviews and what he actually does are two totally different things? Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me! :o) And what do you mean by "carrot"? He only said there was to be a new album--he never said when. The expectation that it would materialize almost immediately was a presumption made by over-zealous fans. > If MK hasn't had the time in 2002 to get together with Boon et al..I cannot > see how they would put out an album in 2003, it would surely be 2004 at > the earliest What makes you think he hasn't had time to "get togther with Boon"? How do you know there aren't already several tracks in the can, hmm? ;o) > I'd also like to know what his thoughts are about a record deal etc...as > surely he would not fund a new Level 42 album and subsequent tour off his > own back again. Yes, we'd all LIKE to know. But for all we DO know, the ink may already be long dry on the new deal, although it may not serve Mark's purposes to announce it, as of yet. > just like the iow-gig Don ? ;-) Ok, Willem, you got me. One source who had never been wrong before blew it, and I took the bait. Shame on me for that one, but I stand firm on the new album. I never say these things without good sources, but they can be wrong occasionally. :o\ >> There WILL be a new album in 2003--I'll take bets from any doubters. > > I'll have a piece of that action. There's more chance of the Steely Dan > album which is allegedly 'practically in the can' seeing the light of day > than Mark King dusting off the creative juices. Oh yeah, like you would actually show up to pay or collect, you cowardly hermit! The once time I almost met you at a gig, you dodged me like a politician sidestepping a direct question! But name your stakes, mate. :o) Don Z

End of Level 42 Digest for Friday, December 20, 2002

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