From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V2000 #163 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 2000 : Issue 163 1330 subscribers Today's topics: Notting Hill Andrew Goodwin Re-issues promos From the Hague to Oxford reissues and bass stuff Jason Bell white flexi beer promo ? s.hillenius Sceptical of the remasters???!!! Philip.O'Brien SUCCESS!!! and L42 & DM David Cousins re: just cranky DonZipf Remastering Mikep3099 Remastering Mikep3099 Re: Level42 Digest V2000 #162 Norman van den Wildenberg Mike Lindup (tour dates) Morgan Roussel USA LEVELFEST FALL 2000 Level 42 Re: 24 bit CD remasters Joey Vela MK tour cont'd Walter Franken Greetings from the heart of Bedfordshire! howardtowers ------------------------------ Subject: Notting Hill From: "Andrew Goodwin" Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:09:35 BST >Subject: Mark's performances >From: "Jackson, Lolita" > >Many of us from the states >never saw them perform here, period. If Mark only plays in England, that's >where we have to go to see him. I have reconciled myself to the fact that >I >will probably never see him play in the U.S., and that's okay by me. Being >upset because he isn't coming to your specific country is pretty useless >IMO. If you want to see him, you will simply have to go where he is >performing. Does this mean I can’t complain because if I want to see him I have to go to the festering carbuncle which is London? You take all the fun out of griping. >Subject: Now Appearing Under the Bloor Viaduct >From: alex.friesen @ sickkids.on.ca > >Unbe-freakin'-leavable! Us poor Colonials get to see something vaguely >related >to Level 42? Praise be! What’s more, there’ll apparently be a strip show happening at the same time. >Subject: London shops.. >From: "Ronald Kuipers" > >Yep thats right the only item I found there in July, (Sorry Norman.:-))) >was a 12 inch Promo of The sun goes down '98. Nice item tough. >However if you go to Oxford there is a shop (Dunno the name or street) Ooh ooh, something I can actually claim to be an authority on, and more to the point in an ‘Oxford is better than London’ vein, my favourite sort of artery. >The shop is at if I remember correctly at the edge of the towncentre. You are referring to Avid Records, a deeply wonderful store positively teeming with all manner of vinyl and plenty of CDs as well, and all of it extremely reasonably priced. I strongly advise anybody looking for anything, vinyl in particular, to give them a try. They’re in Gloucester Street should you happen to be hereabouts, or their phone number is 01865 200411. I don’t think they do mail order or have any internet presence yet, but if they have anything you’re after I can pick it up and send it out. That way I might even be able to persuade them to let me join them, like I’ve been trying to for the last three years... Lee or Paul are the guys to speak to. >Near the place where you can see the Oxford story. But don't do that >it was VERY boring You went to the wrong Oxford story. It all began in 1893, when a tiny amateur side named Headington United set up playing in the Spartan League… AG ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re-issues promos From: "" Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 11:34:50 GMT OK - So who was the lucky person who bought the entire set of promos for the re-issues from ESPRIT. ? They got them all in stock and listed on the website but sold them instantly as none of them are now available. Damn....always seem to be too late where Esprit are concerned. Dean ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: From the Hague to Oxford From: Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:38:39 +0100 From someone who's worked and lived in far too many places (and mildly off topic!) > meanwhile you in the Netherlands get to bike around, smell tulips, smoke dope > legally To my knowledge, it's not legal... merely tolerated... if you want to split hairs about it! SO looking forward to the remasters but can anyone tell me why Amazon only have two of them available for pre-order? They don't seem to be aware of the others. > However if you go to Oxford there is a shop (Dunno the name or street) If anyone knows... I wanna know! I haven't spotted it yet! > Near the place where you can see the Oxford story. But don't do that > it was VERY boring Oi steady! Us Oxfordshire residents stick together. Alright?! ;-) Rick smashie @ dircon.co.uk ------------------------------ Subject: reissues and bass stuff From: "Jason Bell" Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:06:43 BST Hi all. I've been reading the re-issue threads, I can't say with interest but I have noticed that the same sort of conversations are being had as on other mailing lists (King Crimson for one). Whether the remasters are 24bit or not I don't think you'll hear the difference. Polydor are not going to spend a lot of money going to a lot of trouble sprucing everything up just to sell two albums for 10.99 or what ever it may be. The appeal lives in the fact that there are live and rare tracks. Now that's what I want them for. On the bass front, I use 35-95's and don't have an amp. The best sound I get is with a DI box and a good sound man who can communicate with me. To me, the monitor mix is everything. August 12th in York looms large so it's lots of listening and rehearsing. Is anyone actually coming to see this ? Could be a laugh. Regards Jase ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: white flexi beer promo ? From: "s.hillenius" Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:31:59 +0200 Hi everybody, I don't know if Stuart Kinsey is on the Digest, but I would like to thank him for the white Flexi Disk he sent me. Does anybody on the Digest know about this item ? It's a white flexidisk, some kind of beer promo (Breaker - strong malt lager ?) and it has a live version of Love Games (1982) on it. weird stuff, don't you think ? I found it on eBay some time ago. Sam Hillenius Amsterdam ------------------------------ Subject: Sceptical of the remasters???!!! From: Philip.O'Brien @ boi.ie Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:21:11 +0000 (GB) 2) The remasters at 24 bit - ok, but to make a CD they have to bring it back down to 16 bits anyway. So they'll rerecord the old analogue tape masters into a digital 24 bit system, play with the levels or panning or compression or effects, then bake it right back down to 16 bits so your cd player can handle it. I wonder how much "better" this will actually be. Yes, that's right, I'm skeptical. Response: I don't know how anyone can be sceptical of the improved quality of the forthcoming remasters albums...If you've tried to enjoy the 'old' Physical Presence album in it's unmastered state, anything else would be an improvement!! (even the cassette was of better quality and had the missing tracks!!). Why was the production quality of the first album so much better? I've seen two live concerts on WDR on the Rockpalast show - one from 1983 and one from 1984 live in Germany. Watch out for them. They're classics!! ******************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at MailManager @ psir.ie and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of known computer viruses. ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ Subject: SUCCESS!!! and L42 & DM From: David Cousins Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:24:43 +0200 Hi there guys and gals! After six years of trying, I've finally managed to persuade an Estonian that Level 42 is worth listening to!!! I lent a colleague of mine several of the albums and now she wants to hear the rest. She even had a glimmer of excitement in her eye when I told her about the reissues, although whether they'll be available here is another matter, I suppose. The other day several of you wrote that you're also Depeche Mode fans. I thought that was quite interesting, because personally I can't stand Depeche Mode and my wife who's a big DM fan can't stand Level 42 (she did like One Man though). Still, there's no accounting for taste... And now a slightly technical question from someone who's not so technically-minded (hey, after all I'm my dad's son and he's the one who when I was still a child called out the Yamaha repair man to fix the broken disk drive for our Yamaha electronic organ, only to find out that it wasn't broken at all but that the cable connecting the drive to the organ had worked loose.....). Can the CD players in computers sometimes damage the CDs, namely burn them? I was listening to the On The Level compilation the other day at work - during the last track I could hear some kind of background noise, like a radio not quite on the right frequency. I took the CD out and it looks almost burnt. It used to be completely silver but now there's a browny gold, almost centimetre-wide, ring around the outer edge of the top side. All the computer guys at work are on holiday at the moment and I daren't put any other CDs in. Might it just be that it needs a proper clean, or is there a more sinister reason? And I don't think I'll even ask if there's any chance of Mark or Mike making it over here to Estonia. Even Sweden would do (and I'm sure Jenny agrees)... Dream crazy David ------------------------------ Subject: re: just cranky From: DonZipf @ aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:51:58 EDT > My house is filled with crap I've bought that I'll never need and never > use, plus the corporate spies watch me from my TV set, the government > beams radio waves of thought control into my skull, and there's a hostile > takeover going on in my sock drawer. Two things, Tom: yard sale and Lithium. :o) - Don Z. ------------------------------ Subject: Remastering From: Mikep3099 @ aol.com Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:01:20 EDT Hi all, Long time no type. Too many things to list as far as what I've been up too. Unfortunately, not much of it has been music related or even pleasant. Anyway..... Let me start by saying that I have not heard the remasters yet and I am far from a technical expert but as far as the remastering of the reissues goes I expect them to be far superior sonically to what we currently have. The 1st few album were released on CD at the dawn to the CD era. The rest of them were released as they appeared in other formats. This means that they were mastered with the equipment and practices of the day which to say the least were far from perfect. More often than not the mastering facility simply took the LP EQ'd master and made the CD master from that. These LP masters were NOT the "master tapes". More often than not they were at least a couple of generations removed from the actual mixed down masters in addition to being EQ'd to the RIAA curve for vinyl. This curve is far from flat to make the vinyl LP "sound" close to the master because of the limitations of what can be done with vinyl. This does not even take into consideration that the AtoD converters and mastering equipment left alot to be desired at the time too. Most early CD players AND AtoD converters were doing quite well to actually procude 14 bit resolution and there were alot of phase anomolies in the filters (analog) in early conversion equipment. Add to this that alot of the folks doing the mastering weren't familiar with digital technology and didn't like digital either because of the way it sounded or because it was new and different from the norm and therefore couldn't or didn't use the already limited in transperancy gear to it's full potential. Today true 24 bit resolution is still not really possible but the headroom that it offers is and 20 and even near 22bit resolution is common and standard. As far as the fact that the remastered CDs will still have to be "dumbed down" to 16 bit resolution for commercial release on standard CDs... Yes, the new CD's will be limited to 16 bit data. The fact of the matter is though that the technology exists to achieve better than 16 bit reolution on a standard CD through various forms of noise shaping like Sonys Super Bit Mapping and various other formulas. This is basically the standard today. The purpose of remastering to 22 bit data is to gain the extra resolution at the transfer from analog to digital and then preserve as much as possible this resolution when the actual CD master is made. All this said, I haven't heard the remasters and they might not be any better than the originals but if they are not it will be the fault of the engineer and it will take alot of effort on their part to make then sound worse rather than Much much better. I am sure that all in all we are in for a treat both in the sonic improvement dept. and of course with having all the new material that has never been avaiable on CD if at all. Personally, I can't wait to get them all. Sorry for the tech disertation. Happy listening, Mike PS can't wait to see everyone at the Tesas Fest 2) The remasters at 24 bit - ok, but to make a CD they have to bring it back down to 16 bits anyway. So they'll rerecord the old analogue tape masters into a digital 24 bit system, play with the levels or panning or compression or effects, then bake it right back down to 16 bits so your cd player can handle it. I wonder how much "better" this will actually be. Yes, that's right, I'm skeptical. But, I'll probably buy 'em anyway, because I'm an American, that's what we do. ------------------------------ Subject: Remastering From: Mikep3099 @ aol.com Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:01:20 EDT Hi all, Long time no type. Too many things to list as far as what I've been up too. Unfortunately, not much of it has been music related or even pleasant. Anyway..... Let me start by saying that I have not heard the remasters yet and I am far from a technical expert but as far as the remastering of the reissues goes I expect them to be far superior sonically to what we currently have. The 1st few album were released on CD at the dawn to the CD era. The rest of them were released as they appeared in other formats. This means that they were mastered with the equipment and practices of the day which to say the least were far from perfect. More often than not the mastering facility simply took the LP EQ'd master and made the CD master from that. These LP masters were NOT the "master tapes". More often than not they were at least a couple of generations removed from the actual mixed down masters in addition to being EQ'd to the RIAA curve for vinyl. This curve is far from flat to make the vinyl LP "sound" close to the master because of the limitations of what can be done with vinyl. This does not even take into consideration that the AtoD converters and mastering equipment left alot to be desired at the time too. Most early CD players AND AtoD converters were doing quite well to actually procude 14 bit resolution and there were alot of phase anomolies in the filters (analog) in early conversion equipment. Add to this that alot of the folks doing the mastering weren't familiar with digital technology and didn't like digital either because of the way it sounded or because it was new and different from the norm and therefore couldn't or didn't use the already limited in transperancy gear to it's full potential. Today true 24 bit resolution is still not really possible but the headroom that it offers is and 20 and even near 22bit resolution is common and standard. As far as the fact that the remastered CDs will still have to be "dumbed down" to 16 bit resolution for commercial release on standard CDs... Yes, the new CD's will be limited to 16 bit data. The fact of the matter is though that the technology exists to achieve better than 16 bit reolution on a standard CD through various forms of noise shaping like Sonys Super Bit Mapping and various other formulas. This is basically the standard today. The purpose of remastering to 22 bit data is to gain the extra resolution at the transfer from analog to digital and then preserve as much as possible this resolution when the actual CD master is made. All this said, I haven't heard the remasters and they might not be any better than the originals but if they are not it will be the fault of the engineer and it will take alot of effort on their part to make then sound worse rather than Much much better. I am sure that all in all we are in for a treat both in the sonic improvement dept. and of course with having all the new material that has never been avaiable on CD if at all. Personally, I can't wait to get them all. Sorry for the tech disertation. Happy listening, Mike PS can't wait to see everyone at the Tesas Fest 2) The remasters at 24 bit - ok, but to make a CD they have to bring it back down to 16 bits anyway. So they'll rerecord the old analogue tape masters into a digital 24 bit system, play with the levels or panning or compression or effects, then bake it right back down to 16 bits so your cd player can handle it. I wonder how much "better" this will actually be. Yes, that's right, I'm skeptical. But, I'll probably buy 'em anyway, because I'm an American, that's what we do. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V2000 #162 From: "Norman van den Wildenberg" Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:46:17 +0200 Hi Levelheads, responding to yesterdays... > Yep thats right the only item I found there in July, (Sorry Norman) No offence Ronald, just got the Love Games 12"for free, from some small friend, who is now a BIG friend!!! > Love Sarah x Thanks Sarahm I needed that!! ;-) > Do You Yahoo!? No I dont! Now something else... Got this message from Palm Pictures, Da Lata's record company: Hi Norman, I will send the new single if you can send an address. We would be happy to help in any way-your site is very impressive. Gerry Lyseight Palm Pictures There's gonna be a new single!!!!!! Hurrah!!!!! (and the record comp. likes my site ;-) hurrah 2!!) Norman (who's a happy guy at the moment.) www.level42.zzn.com www.dalata.zzn.com ps I'm not Complaining... Saw MK in November and ML twice last month... For the US digesters: why don't you come over to here, as you like Legal drugs, Tulips and Bike's (Not to forget the wooden shoes and mills. Maybe we can trade against your, BIG BiGGER BIGGEST Hamburgers, your Cowboys, your Ranches, Your statue of freedom, Your big houses, big Cars, ASF.,....) ------------------------------ Subject: Mike Lindup (tour dates) From: "Morgan Roussel" Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:32:25 +0200 Hello, US & Canadian Tour : Further details added. USA 5th August 2000 Central Park (Summer Stage) New York Playing with Da Lata On stage 4.45- 5.30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 6th August 2000 Joe's Pub ((Laffayette St) New York Playing with Da Lata On Stage 1130pm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Canada 9th August 2000 Montreal, Tokyo bar, 3768 Boulevard St Laurent, Montreal Playing with Da Lata On stage: 0030hrs ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 10th August 2000 Ottawa Mercury Lounge 56 Byward Ottawa Playing with Da Lata ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 12th August 2000 Toronto Reverb, 651 Queen St West. Playing with Da Lata Check out www.mikelindup.com for more info. Morgan. www.level42.com ------------------------------ Subject: USA LEVELFEST FALL 2000 From: "Level 42" Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:48:27 CDT **************** WE INVITE YOU TO ATTEND **************** TEXAS LEVEL ROUND-UP SIX FALL LEVELFEST 2000 Friday, October 27 through Sunday, October 29, 2000 Location: Arlington, Texas, USA (Dallas/Ft. Worth) RSVP by October 1, 2000 to: levelfest_dfw @ hotmail.com Travel assistance: michael.p @ mainstreettravel.com ********************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 24 bit CD remasters From: "Joey Vela" Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:07:22 -0500 Levelheads, Although it's true that CD's are only capable of 16 bit/ 44.1 Khz playback unlike DVD's and SACD's, which are capable of full 24 bit/ 96 Khz playback, 24 bit remastering of 16 bit CD's can still improve the sound quite substantially, especially when compared to early 16 bit-mastered pressings of the same title. Just listen to any of the most recent Santana 24 bit remasters and compare them to the first back catalog CD pressings from around 1986 or 1987, and it's like night & day. 24 bit mastering seems to add depth and spatial quality not to mention cleaner overall sound. More important than the mastering resolution is the fact that these new L42 re-issues are being remastered from the original analog tapes. Now I'm assuming that these are the true 1st generation master tapes. If so, then the most faithful reproduction of the original recording sessions is sure to be expected! This is in contrast to most of the first back catalog CD pressings, which were mastered from tapes several generations removed from the originals. In other words, mastered from copies of copies. Natural sound degradation occurs when copies are made from copies. The best recordings are always those from the original source. That's why Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs recordings were so popular (and even more so now since they folded). In short, 24 bit remastering + original master tapes = GREAT SOUND! Any chance of the re-issues being pressed on the format that's still the best, VINYL? Regards, Joey Vela ------------------------------ Subject: MK tour cont'd From: Walter Franken Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:31:45 +0200 Lolita wrote: >> This was well said. I am one of those folks from the U.S. that has no problem going back and forth to see Mark play - I have done so twice already and will do it again in November. I was a fan for fourteen years before I ever saw him play live [the One Man tour], and it means enough to me to spend my hard earned money and vacation time to do so. It has always baffled me that the Dutchies complain so much about this, since the band apparently played there so often in the past. Many of us from the states never saw them perform here, period. If Mark only plays in England, that's where we have to go to see him. I have reconciled myself to the fact that I will probably never see him play in the U.S., and that's okay by me. Being upset because he isn't coming to your specific country is pretty useless IMO. If you want to see him, you will simply have to go where he is performing. << I ain't complaining, just making a statement. True, I have seen Level 42 live a couple of times, and I would like to see MK live too. So I can't complain. But, Mark always is always referring to the Netherlands as was it his motherland or so. "The Netherlands is a very special place to me." according to MK. In referral to that, if MK tours almost all European countries, including ones where his popularity is less than in the UK, US or Netherlands, I wonder what reason there must be to skip the Netherlands on his tour. And to go to England just to see him perform, well, I'm a big fan, but that's just a little too much for me. Belgium (Antwerp or Buxelles) would be fine, but England, sorry, no. Walter ------------------------------ Subject: Greetings from the heart of Bedfordshire! From: "howardtowers" Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:42:52 +0100 Gosh I haven't done this for ages. What's that? Logged onto the L42 digest! Sorry but we're talking early L42 love interest here. Why now? I have just rediscovered the US mix of Love Games and it got me just there (points to inner body parts!). Great to see Polydor have finally got their act together on the long-awaited reissues! Is anybody out there in Herts, Beds and Bucks with a Fender Rhodes, drum machine or a tendency to slap-a-bass interested in a jam on the level with Boon-inspired six string chord picker like me?