From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V99 #108 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 99 : Issue 108 1064 subscribers Today's topics: Issue 3 Laurence F. GREEN Slap bass! Clare Reeves Slaptechnique difficult? Erik Terheggen Slap bass Lolita K. Jackson heaven and hell AHpsyc Slap me silly... DonZipf JJ/L42 Connection J Shuford L42 GHits etc. - dutch flavour Andy Smith Re: Level42 Digest V99 #107/slap bass technique DEANB1043 assorted stuff Jay Tracy Let us Purify the digest... Dan Nesselroth Come back Nightfly83... , Guaranteed and ML cristina gallego a good slapping Bill Burnett ------------------------------ Subject: Issue 3 From: L.F.Green @ shu.ac.uk (Laurence F. GREEN) Organization: Sheffield Hallam University Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:11:01 -0000 To whoms it may concern there follows a coded message. three WORDs the MACHINE stops THREE words (again) IS COMPLETE AND READY Check out http://www.level42.com/fanzine/index.html for ordering details and LET THE BATTLE COMMENCE --------- LOZ ------------------------------ Subject: Slap bass! From: Clare Reeves Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:55:50 +0100 Hi All.. I fancied replying to John's mail about slap bass technique... other bass players feel free to add more. IMHO slap is definately trickier to learn that simply plucking the strings. I found that hitting the wrong string was the most infuriating thing! But with enough practice then you get it eventually!! But with slap playing actaully slapping the strings is only a small part of the style. With "pop" (pulling the strings upward with usually the 1st and 2nd fingers) and "mute" (damping the strings with the left hand) being the bits that make slap funky. I don't think there is as much slap about today as there was in the 80s as it's just not as fashionable anymore. Wham and Kajagoogoo (to name but 2 acts) used slap a lot in the 80s. And if you listen carefully you can hear "pops" in Lenny Kravitz's "Fly Away" which is still in the UK charts I think. It's not so hard to play slap but it's hard to be really good (I guess most bassits can cope with a couple of Level tracks) And - you guessed it MK was/is REALLY good!! I don't think anyone would get away with playing like that now - pretending to be original - without being slated as trying to copy Mark King. Remember too MK was a drummer so he has an advantage of the rythmically challenged. Hope that's vaguely interesting John. Clare Clare Reeves Studio Manager, Africa and Middle East Region BBC World Service Tel: 0171 5572482 Email: Clare.Reeves @ BBC.co.uk ------------------------------ Subject: Slaptechnique difficult? From: Erik Terheggen Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:39:40 +0000 >Emikatie wrote: >I'm curious as to why there is not more of it (slapbass) in popular music, Is it a difficult >style to play? It is a question I asked myself manytimes. I am playing bass since 1985, I can't recall anyone playing bass like Mark does. (except for myself playing L42 stuff, but that doesn't count of course). Mark tend to fill in the gaps with a lot of pops, a sort of drumming with the right and left hand. This is really unique. Although the effect is really the combination of the two hands, it involves a very steady an fast right hand/arm and a lot of training on that particular style of playing. This is I think one of the reasons that you don't hear this technique being used a lot. The other reason why the technique isn't popular is that too much slap can destroy a good song (unless your name is Mark King of course). The songs of Level42 are often written around a good bass-line. Mark King is not only a good bass-player but his bass-lines are incredible too. Very hard to copy that. Once you have the technique I think it is easier to play tight slapping than plucking. I think it has to do with the fact that with slapping you use the whole right arm, while with plucking al the power has to come from the fingers. So, I find plucking more difficult. This is probably a very personal thing and depend a lot on what you like to practise the most. Erik T. I think the way Mark is playing bass involves a lot of trai ------------------------------ Subject: Slap bass From: "Lolita K. Jackson" Organization: Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:51:38 -0400 > Any bass players care to comment on the slap bass technique (RJ, DonZipf, > Nightfly83, et. al.)? > > I'm curious as to why there is not more of it in popular music. > > Is it a difficult style to play, compared to just "plucking" the string? > > With the zillions of songs out there, I've not heard any with the same style. > > Which leads me to think it's either too difficult to perfect, musical > stylings don't lend themselves to that "sound", or it is such a unique style > that to copy it would be....well....... copying. What type of music do you listen to? The reason I ask is because I have quite a few CDs with slap bass on them and I'm surprised that you say you haven't heard the style on anything except Level 42 songs. There are plenty of folks who do it, but most of them are in the R&B or jazz realms. My most famous current example of this would be Marcus Miller - check out his CD The Sun Don't Lie. He slaps through Teen Town, a song that Jaco Pastorius made famous. Stuart Zender, formerly of Jamiroquai, also slaps - the beginning of the song Sister Moon on the Return of the Space Cowboy CD is all slapping and plucking. There are more folks who do this in today's music who I'm sure others will name [doesn't Tony Levin slap on the Peter Gabriel stuff?]. I'm outtie. Lolita ------------------------------ Subject: heaven and hell From: AHpsyc @ aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:17:57 EDT I was away for awhile, but I wanted to chime in. Heaven - Something About You (just over Leaving Me Now) Hell - The Chant Has Begun (I just never liked it) Love the Digest, OlloR in Philly ------------------------------ Subject: Slap me silly... From: DonZipf @ aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:52:14 EDT > Any bass players care to comment on the slap bass technique (RJ, DonZipf, > Nightfly83, et. al.)? > > I'm curious as to why there is not more of it in popular music. > > Is it a difficult style to play, compared to just "plucking" the string? I think the primary reason there isn't more bass guitar in popular music period is the keyboard bass. Pop & dance music today are almost totally produced using keys & computers - it's just the trend. For those blessed souls who do play real bass, yes - the technique requires exhaustive practice. It also seems that most good slappers started out as drummers (Mark did, I did, & I know some of you did too). Slap bass really is like combining drums & guitar into one instrument. If you can't beat out a funky rhythm on a table, then you can't play slap bass! BTW, about the "just 'plucking' the string" comment - don't kid yourself. There's a lot more to right-hand technique than just plucking. Half your tone is there, man! Peace - Z. HARD ROCK CAFE pin collectors - visit my new HRC Pin Collection at... http://members.aol.com/donzipf/hrcpins.html ------------------------------ Subject: JJ/L42 Connection From: J Shuford Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:35:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Gaetan Duperron" > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:48:35 PDT > Can anybody name a Level 42-Joe Jackson connection? He was mentioned > in the last digest. I'm going to say Drew Barfield, who appeared on JJ's Blaze of Glory album. Me, I blame the old songs... I am a longtime JJ fan, getting my first taste like many people my age, with the Night and Day album. Favorite album has to be Big World. Whenever I play that for people who don't really know JJ's work, they simply cannot believe that this is a totally LIVE and unrefined recording. shuf ------------------------------ Subject: L42 GHits etc. - dutch flavour From: "Andy Smith" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:50:17 +0100 Hi ya levelheads Could somebody tell me where to get hold of the 'continental' double album that was released earlier this year? Believe it was a dutch production. Chris D. got me the 'TIO' compilation which I think is great - I need the above - please help. BTW - has anybody heard of The Cherry Poppin' Daddies? They are an american ska/swing band. Recently got hold of their album 'Zoot Suit Riot'. Major piece of work let me tell you. If you're into horn sections you'll love it!!!! TCOY's, Andy (mad L43 trumpet player!) ICQ number : 6907957 Visit Caduceus Brass On The Web : http://homepage.virgin.net/caduceus.brass ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V99 #107/slap bass technique From: DEANB1043 @ aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:03:14 EDT to john, i'm a bass player and have to say that it's not a difficult art. we brothers here in my part of ny call it thumbing not slap. while not hard in its basic form to play it like mark king and those in his vein is a different matter because it involves almost a drummer like precision between both hands to create the rhythmic patterns. it's hard to decribe and similar patterns can be acheived by double picking with the thumb (or a back and forth motion). and another thing to take in account about mark is his ability to do these difficult tasks while also being a good singer. to me to play bass and sing is very hard. my hats off to mark and i'm from jamaica which spawned marcus miller, al macdowell and a host of others. ------------------------------ Subject: assorted stuff From: "Jay Tracy" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:46:48 -0400 At , you wrote: I try to stray away from most of the conversations herein, but I'm a bit bored... >Imagine the digest as a levelfest, a host of level42 fans all in a big room. > Obviously much of the talk will be of >level42, but BZZZZT, wrong. A levelfest is a collection of people that gather together for the purpose of conversation, etc. This mailing list is a frame to enclose the sole topic on the group Level 42, hence the name Level 42 mailing list. And while, yes, it is easy to "just scroll down" when a needless post comes across, but it can also be annoying that such persons to post actually think that they are being witty, or whatever just because a few chortling memebers say the so-close-to "you're so neat" praising. To comment, line after line (sometimes page after page!) on various posts, many having nothing to do with Level 42, is pathetic. If this is needed, create a list for psuedowit elsewhere, there you can recieve your so-needed pat of the backs. But that's the life of a mailing list of any kind; most will have a few memeber that seek to annoying while thinking they are being nothing but a pain in the ass. >>>....can anyone take bands that have had various and multiple line up >>changes >>over the years seriously? >I offer King Crimson, although whether that defeats or confirms your >argument is entirely subjective. A very good offer (and unfortuantly they are going to another change with the 'new' line-up). Others for consideration: Frank Zappa, and hey, how about Miles Davis, I think his band went through one or two changes :-/ Winston: > Personally I always thought of their lyrics >as one of their strong points. I bet if we did a poll of the 1,000 plus >digest members, most would agree that the lyrical content of the >songs was above average. My opinion, anyway. :-) Ugh. I too (whomever was the original poster) notch Level 42 up for 'lame %^&ing lyrics', Not too much of the music I listen to has lyrics, but when I do I chalk our guys up to some of the most mundane I've ever heard (I do not listen to the radio). Of course there are rare exceptions (although I can't think of one..."Man"), but to consistantly and constantly write on such trite themes as "love"...jesus, enough is enough. And indeed, enough is enough, ...jay "Where questions of religion are concerned, people are guilty of every possible sort of dishonesty and intellectual misdemeanour" -Sigmund Freud ------------------------------ Subject: Let us Purify the digest... From: "Dan Nesselroth" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:55:55 PDT Amazing as it seems, there are folks here who actually LIKE SATS and G....this is intolerable....the majority of us obviously have taste and can understand that the early years were the artistically pure ones. Seeing as we are the majority, I suggest that we crush this element of rebellion before it gets out of hand. Kick them off the digest and let us purify the Level 42 fanbase so that the band's memory is not tainted by a rumor that they appealed to idiots. It is more than a pop/rock and jazz/funk division...it is a question of racial purity and the fact that the pop/rock folks have been giving us a bad name for years. Exterminate and purify. On a lighter note, I would like to bring up the issue of L42 lyics....while not BAD lyrics, they are certainly not the driving appeal of the band. They are musicians and good lyrics cannot compete with astounding music. If I want lyrics, I listen to Talking Heads, Devo, Paul Simon or even Thomas Dolby. L42 lyrics can catch my ear and mood at times, but the sense of brilliant linguistic play does not come through. And they have some real shitty ones....such as "hey you, you gotta break out, you gotta follow through, you gotta try to find your way...dream on, but dont lose the feeling, when there's nothing to hold on to..." This is little more than a machine-gun of meaningless and common-in-pop memonic phrasing. It drives me nuts. But someone brought up KCM and I must agree...those lyrics impress me every time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: Come back Nightfly83... , Guaranteed and ML From: "cristina gallego" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:17:17 PDT Hi everybody!! I hope you are all doing o.k. I just want to add a few lines to the general commotion caused by AG's disappearance from the Digest... You can not do that!! I really enjoyed reading your messages during the short time I've been on the list (even your wonderful and acid remarks about the "spanish issue", by the way, your spanish is perfect!). Well, I hope you reconsider your decission and you come back soon to keep on entertaining us... Message to Hans Grund!! Yeah!! You should buy "Guaranteed", it is really different from "FN" and the early stuff BUT, if you already have the rest of the discography (something that I still can't say) why don't you go for the complete one! ;o) Oh!! I wanted to ask you about ML's as the Cat in Red Dwarf??? I don't get it. I remember there was a british tv serial in the 80's called the Red Dwarf (it was also broadcasted in spanish tv a long time ago)... What has Mike to do with it? Could someone please explain it in a simple way for me to understand?? Thanks in advance! Well, I hope all of you that will attend Mike's show are going to have a great time... as well as Wally's show... TCOY, Cristina ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: a good slapping From: Bill Burnett Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:59:51 +0100 >Subject: Slap Bass Technique >From: EMIKATIE @ aol.com >Any bass players care to comment on the slap bass technique (RJ, DonZipf, >Nightfly83, et. al.)? > >I'm curious as to why there is not more of it in popular music. > >Is it a difficult style to play, compared to just "plucking" the string? > >With the zillions of songs out there, I've not heard any with the same style. > >Which leads me to think it's either too difficult to perfect, musical >stylings don't lend themselves to that "sound", or it is such a unique style >that to copy it would be....well....... copying. > >So.... is it easy to play like Mark King, or tough. This is likely to take a while, so if you're not interested in bass playing, you all know what to do. Slap bass technique is not the easiest thing in the world to master, it is certainly a more complex operation than picking or finger playing. To give you an example, if you watch a pianist at work, it is fairly evident how the sound is being produced, and anyone can sit down at a piano, start hitting keys & produce a recognisable sound (they may not produce a discernible tune, but it will sound like a piano nonetheless, and so it is with fingering or picking a bass. Slapping however is more akin to watching a trumpet player. To the untrained observer, all they are doing is blowing into a tube, there is no way to appreciate the importance of embouchure (the way in which the lips must be held to produce a sound) without actually feeling it work yourself. I find slap playing a similar situation, when I first saw mark king live, he simply appeared to be hitting the bass. When I took up bass playing I was amazed at how I simply couldn't produce a slap sound. I had never played a string instrument before, so I had no predisposition to a particular technique (in fact due to mark's inspiration I was probably heavily biased towards slap playing), but while I could guess my way round fingerstyle on the first day. It took about six months of trail & much error before I could slap. In a process akin to learning to whistle or ride a bike, one has to learn the right feel for slap playing. It requires just the right combination of pressure, speed of attack, bounce & flexibility. Not enough attack and string will not ring clearly, too much pressure, and you choke the note, producing only thuds (although such things are part of the slappers vocabulary!) there is no way to get this balance right until you feel it happen. This is to me the core of why slapping remains a minority sport, it simply isn't an instinctive technique (mark king is probably the exception, as a drummer it is probably the most instinctive technique). However this alone does not explain the absence of slapping in most modern pop. In my opinion, this has far more to do with fashion & music industry prejudices. I spend a lot of time around the live music scene in London, particularly unknown bands in tiny venues, If I was asked to guess a figure, I would say that approximately 1 in 5 bassists can play basic slap technique, and perhaps 1 in 50 can approximate the kind of complex patterns mark king uses. (I am not suggesting that this means 1 in 50 bassists are as good as MK, as there is more to musicianship than speed of slapping), but although they are still in a minority, there are clearly many great slap players around. A friend of mine down the local guitar shop can play every mark king line perfectly. No, there must be another reason why more slapping is not heard commercially, and in my opinion, it is down to a regression in the sound of pop music. The 80's were a decade of very high production values, full of tricky technical playing, & clean smooth production. L42 epitomised those values, and many 80's pop bands aped this sound, just take a look at the fave band lists of a few months ago (thomas dolby, nik kershaw, sade, tears for fears etc) even Kajagoogoo had a shit hot slap bass player. slappings' very clean & precise sound endears itself to this type of music, and no 80's pop band could be seen without a status graphite slung at neck level. Now tastes have changed, the effect of grunge, indie & britpop has brought with it a kind of post-punk ethos wherein, high standards of playing & production are despised as somehow robbing music of it's honesty & soul, the success of bands such as oasis, blur, ash, kula shaker, manic street preachers, the verve etc, has spawned a return to a rough & raw sound, with bands & producers aspiring to a very 60's influenced ambience, and so bass playing in this regard has regressed to the simpler playing & woollier tones of that age, and even players who can manage much more are expected to keep it simple & unobtrusive (if I was a cynical type, I'd suggest that this may have influenced MK's change of style), and of course, conservative record companies never mess with a good thing financially. So just as a rough sounding pub band like Oasis would never have been touched in the pristine pop world of the 80's, so an intricate sophisticated band like L42 wouldn't have a hope in the 90's (just see how easily MK's playing style fitted in his guest appearance on nik kershaws' easy, sounding perfectly at home with the rest of the riddle, now imagine him slapping away on If you tolerate this you're children will be next, just doesn't work does it?). But in spite of all this, the slapping goes on, just away from the pop arena. In a more R & B vein, there remain at least a few acts based around live playing, and although much bass work in the dance area is sequenced or sampled (I'm sure old school is just a euphemism for old bassline) regular digest mentions to jamiroqui, incognito & the brand new heavies are good examples of how clean & tight playing in the funk arena is still a respected commodity. In addition, move to any area of music less influenced by chart considerations, and you will find a wealth of great slappers, jazz of course is a great haven for top playing, but even some metal acts are getting the hang of it now. So don't mourn the passing of the great age of slappers. Reports of it's death have been greatly exaggerated, it is merely hiding out in the more esoteric musical worlds, until the fashionable wheel of popular music turns on and it's time comes again. Hope that clears that up. Love - bill ======================================================================== Bill Burnett http://www.sphere3.demon.co.uk/ ========================================================================