From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V99 #106 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 99 : Issue 106 1060 subscribers Today's topics: Re: Level42 Digest V99 #105 Laurence F. GREEN Re: Level42 Digest V99 #105 Laurence F. GREEN The very worst of l42 willem van der veen *Gary Husband live in Cardiff* Karl HANZEL Head full of Shadows (and other thngs) Marcus Bone Old vs. new, Level 42 redux, AG Lolita Jackson Nineteen Forever! grund Leaving me now, it's sad to see!! LINDSKOG JENNY Bad lyrics. NOT! alex.friesen "Old" pop stars, Joe P, Mike The Babe, MIDI fil>> Charl Mocke Level 42 is great! meier_christoph Updated web site ElSavannah L42 CODE Dan Nesselroth posters to trade & changing band line-ups Richard Herren ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V99 #105 From: L.F.Green @ shu.ac.uk (Laurence F. GREEN) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:08:38 +0100 Level42 @ worldmachine.com writes: >My opinion has always been - and I know there are those of you who agree - >that Level 42's weakness was lyrics. Seriously one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read in my entire life. In addition, I doubt if I live to be over 100, I will read something as ridiculous. LOZ. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V99 #105 From: L.F.Green @ shu.ac.uk (Laurence F. GREEN) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:17:56 +0100 Level42 @ worldmachine.com writes: >From what I've read on the digest, Mark wanted to keep the Level 42 name, >but Mike didn't let him. This explains "Level 42's Mark King". >Boon and Phil seem to have been "bought out" and they have nothing to say >over the Level 42 name or old stuff. Sorry - for the double post. No, I don;t think Mark wnated to be called Level 42, in fact, I'm certain he didn't. Your right though, the Level 42 franchise is owned by Mark King and Mike Lindup equally. Boon and Phil Gould however still would obviously benefit from royalties of any songs they wrote up re-releases - for instance, the polydor re-issues. Remember, Mark and Boon didn;t get to gather and decide to write One Man, Mark just happened to pick up some of Boons lyrics and set to work. This i an interesting way around of doing things as usually Mark wrote the music and Boon or phil added lyrics to Marks mumblings. My mail about lyrics wasn't an attack or anything, it was the honest truth, I found the statement ridiculous. Phil and Boon are the sons of 2 writers and the genese were passed on clearly. Both are extremely well read individuals. They could write undechipherable lyrics that only they knew the meaning of, or simple, easy to understand lyrics for pop songs. One Man is a musical album, the idea is that the music is the focus and not the words. The will never be a reunion of the original 4 members of Level 42, yet I suspect in the years to come there will be more than 1 collaboration between original members and I would bet my mortgage on Mark and Mike reforming Level 42 withtin 5 years and probably much sooner. LOZ ------------------------------ Subject: The very worst of l42 From: "willem van der veen" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:53:09 +0200 The very worst of l42, Maybe we should wait for this one, maybe this includes many more fantastic songs ! Maybe some new songs too.. My two duppies worth ------------------------------ Subject: *Gary Husband live in Cardiff* From: Karl HANZEL Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:59:01 GMT0BST Yes it's true , the man himself will be performing with the Gary Husband trio on Thu April 22nd at Cafe Jazz St Mary's St Cardiff Nice! And guess what its ,wait for it, ABSOLUTE FREE TO GET IN,THAT RIGHT, FREE Less than 10 minutes walk from my home ,and they sell beer.Need I say more. Does anyone know of any other dates he's performing on his tour and has anyone seen him perform in this band? ttfn Karl ------------------------------ Subject: Head full of Shadows (and other thngs) From: Marcus Bone Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:38:24 +0100 Hi all, Pat Flanagan: (ps I never got the hang of this Joe Bloggs wrote on 12/4/99 thing so I have to put these things in manually - sad , anyway) > Actually, I'd rather sing Head Full Of Shadows, since I think it's got > some goofy lyrics. I'd be very faithful to Boon's drunken style of > singing on that song. I was listening to this song while reading this message - I think its actually pretty good despite what BG says. Also I think his voice in 87 was in good enough shape to have done an entire album - I know he said he had to work on his voice a lot for Tin Man but to me it doesn't sound that much different in Head full of shadows. Don Zipf: >My opinion has always been - and I know there are those of you who agree - >that Level 42's weakness was lyrics. They needed the assistance of an >outside poet - sort of a Wally Badarou for words. Not that Boon & Phil >didn't write a few good ones, but by the time they got good at it, they quit >the band. Don - Phil Gould was THE lyricist for L42 - his lyrics are amazing esp. EWF and HBTW. Look at the disaster of "Guaranteed" with outside "poets" Drew Barfield and George M Green. I think Boon is almost as good a lyricist as Phil, the problem with One Man is that it has three songs that sound too similar (HWS, TMH, LW) I would have liked another song like Changing the Guard on there to spice it up a bit. Dan Nesselroth: >Billy Joel was always a favorite of mine....brilliant stuff. And >suddenly 45 comes up on him and he begins to write musical garbage >about his daughter, or his generation, or some other mid-life >spirituality pap. At last - I totally agree with this statement - trouble is the crap stuff still gets shit loads of airplay because of the status of the artist. Thanks to Andrew Goodwin for the tape he sent me along with the video CDs - you've seen the support you've got lad - I think you should come back! Also did anyone notice the posters for the dreaded "Solid Silver 60s Show" on the billboards for virtually all Marks gigs - I noticed they all said "14th glorious year" now by my calculations that means they started 15 years after the sixties ended so in 2005 brace yourselves for the "Solidly Shat 80s Show". Please God do not let any of the level boys get sucked into that one. e.g. Level 42 - Mark King - Bass with - Dave "looks about 17" Average - Keyboards - Joe Session - Guitar - Steve "not an original member but looks old enough so hopefully no-one will notice" Hihat - Drums ek P.S. My finance department has ordered "Dialogue with Death" for me from Amazon so hopefully I'll be able to put the ISBN number up soon. Bye for Now Marcus Bone We're all human - We are all geezers Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/ ------------------------------ Subject: Old vs. new, Level 42 redux, AG From: Lolita Jackson Organization: Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:43:59 -0400 Just to prove that my dislike of Staring at the Sun and Guaranteed are not due to early-adopter snobbery, I never heard of Level 42 until Something About You, like most Americans. I obtained the back catalogue only after that. I dislike those two CDs because they got away from the essence of what the group was about up until that time, which to me was jazzfunk and a form of fusion in the instrumentals. Listening to I Don't Know Why, Tracie, Gresham Blues, etc. is a very different experience than listening to Return of the Handsome Rugged Man, 43, and True Believers. It goes back to my theory of the Pop Rockers and the Jazzfunksters on the digest - each group will never be able to convince the other that their era is better, and will never truly understand each other. That is why I never slag off on someone who doesn't like a track or album that I do. I understand why they don't like mine, and I hope they understand why I don't like theirs. People can tell me the virtues of Guaranteed until they are blue in the face, it won't change the fact that I feel it was simply a collection of random songs and not a complete album. I listen to the Level 42 album and it is the best [outside of Forever Now] as far as flow and song order - the only one I own that is better in the regard is Aja by Steely Dan [Nightfly, where are we when we need ya?]. Not only is Guaranteed just a collection of songs, most of them are just not as good as they could have been, IMO. Before I get flamed, please read what I said above - I won't slag on you if you don't like The Machine Stops or 43, so allow me to say this without trying to kill me. I will say that I love Man, Overtime and A Kinder Eye, as well as the B-side from that era At This Great Distance, but I could actually do without most of the other songs on those CDs. Forever Now was infinitely superior to both those CDs any way you slice it. As far as the band reforming, I think of it as getting back together with your first boyfriend or girlfriend. A one or two time tryst is good, but when you try to rekindle the flames long term, your original opinion of the person gets faded and you only remember the current flaws [he's balding and has become a boor, she's not as smart or nice as you had idealized]. The same thing would happen with the boys. One or two reunion tours would be great, but I don't think a CD of new material would hold up to our high standards. Better to have them as we remember. Think of the groups from the 70s and 80s who are touring now. I think the person who named Billy Joel said it best - I love his music from his angry period pre-Christie Brinkley before he got fat and happy, and am not so keen on the newer stuff. If I went to see him on tour, I would really be there to hear Big Shot, My Life and stuff like that. I know many folks will disagree with this, but seeing Mark on tour in January made me realize that I only lost my mind with joy when he played the old stuff, and he knew it too, which is why he didn't play any songs from Level 42 from the last three CDs. Finally, I will jump on the Andrew bandwagon and say that he is the only person who posts that I sit at my desk and laugh out loud at his musings. He brightens my day, and it saddens me that someone took the time to write something like that to him. I could care less about MP3, G vs. G#, etc., but I would never tell someone not to write about that stuff. How immature of someone to say 'stop writing this because I am too stupid to scroll past it'. Get a life. Lolita ------------------------------ Subject: Nineteen Forever! From: grund @ zeiss.de Date: 16 Apr 1999 16:20:50 +0200 > "Gaetan Duperron" wrote > Subject: "I'm gonna rant and rave. I'm gonna lose control..." Ah! Interesting subject! No, I don't mean the leaving of AG, which btw I think is very disappointing. Wasn't very nice, maybe the initiator would be prepared to apologize?? No, I mean where the a.m line comes from. Now there's another all time fave of mine: Joe Jackson! The most perfect gig I ever saw was the "Laughter & Lust" gig he did in Stuttgart in 1992. Perfect venue, perfect musicians, perfect sound, perfect audience! Gaetan, you also like Joe Jackson? Any other Level 42 fans like him? Would be interesting to know. To those who have been following the digest lately, you will know what I mean when I write "if you can't beat them, join them". So many non-Level artists are being mentioned here all the time (a lot of which I can't stand at all), at least I can try to help keep things biased a little by mentioning those I do like, being: Level 42, Mark King, L42, MK, Mr. King, Joe Jackson, LEVEL42, Jamiroquai, LFT, Mike Lindup and Level 42, etc. :-) I don't think I've ever heard Incognito. I read the name for the first time here on the digest. (Is their bass player good or what?) For a.m. reasons I won't mention the others (the ones that suck). I also know no details about certain already mentioned so-called-groups, sorry. FOREVER NOW: I stopped buying Level 42 CD's after hearing "Staring at the Sun". Apart from "Heaven in my hands" and "Tracie" I didn't like it. This was a long time ago. Two weeks ago I got FN though and I love it! It is much better and much more Level than SATS. Now the only album missing is "Guaranteed". What does the digest think, should I get it? Enjoy yourselves, wherever you may be. Hans Grund ------------------------------ Subject: Leaving me now, it's sad to see!! From: "LINDSKOG JENNY" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:02:20 +0200 I haven't been long on this list and I haven't said much but right now I feel the need to speak my mind. I'm a very positive person myself so I can't see the reason for making someone leave the list. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion! If we can't agree on that then what is this list for? The thing we all have in common is that we like Level 42 and at the same time we don't like the same songs. Can you find two persons that would list the exact same ten songs as their favourite? I don't think so! The reason I joined this list was that I wanted to be able to discuss things about L42. If I write something to the list I don't expect people the feel the exact same way about it, but what I expect is to be treated with respect. That was all I wanted to say. And if you disagree with me, well I don't care! Ha! I won't leave this place unless Eric removes me!! Oh, and for what it's worth: Please, Nightfly stay! I enjoyed reading your posts! Jenny (crossing my fingers so Eric won't be mad at me =) ) Jenny, Glorious Goddess of Television, Defender of Sillyness and Worshipper of The Great Pretender, Keeper of The Riddle, an ordinary angel (and occasionally a very silly girl) ------------------------------ Subject: Bad lyrics. NOT! From: alex.friesen @ sickkids.on.ca Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:18:25 -0400 >From: DonZipf @ aol.com > >My opinion has always been - and I know there are those of you who agree - >that Level 42's weakness was lyrics. > Now I've heard some wild opinions, but this is perhaps the farest-feched. (Far-fechedest? Farested-fetch?) Seems to me that the lyrics to (just about) all L42 tracks are at worst equivalent to the average pop tune, and at best far and away superior. How can you listen to tunes like "A Floating Life" "Hours by the Window" "Coup D'etat" "Kansas City Milkman" and even "Lessons in Love" and not get the feeling that there's intelligence, insight, and social analysis going on here? Ain't this digest great? How dull it would be if we all agreed on everything. Like AG's posts, for instance. Some people (who seem unaware of the "page down" function) didn't appreciate his posts. Now I could go on about the relationship between reading and comprehension, and how some people easily prove that the two can remain mutually exclusive, but I won't bother, 'cause the target audience wouldn't understand. (I've tried to be "pithy" and "wryly whimsical", but I just can't get the knack. "Becalming insight" is, unfortunately, something I can only dream of.) ...Alex... " Til I saw you in pieces" ------------------------------ Subject: "Old" pop stars, Joe P, Mike The Babe, MIDI files From: "Charl Mocke" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:43:36 +0200 Andre wrote: >Charl wrote: >Obviously, we all would love Level 42 to form again... but will they? I >mean, Mark is getting old (aren't we all...), > > Is this a criterium wether one makes good music or not ? > And please define old for me. > May I remind you of Tina Turner, The Rolling Stones and The Golden Earring ? > Still going strong, even they could have been my mums and dads. > And Mark is only 40 ! Good example, being old is definately not reason or means of writing bad musical material. However, the context in which I meant it was about Mark getting *tired* ("old") of the music industry, as can be deducted from confirmed statements he made in various published interviews in the period 1994-1997. He is still capable of writing very good stuff (OM is an example of this, with Boon on lyrics), and did so after getting a new "spark" for music after he received Boon's lyrics. He just needed some time off after Level 42 quit. So, Mark is still going strong yes... but for how long? Lets simply hope he keeps on writing new stuff AND have time for his family and other responsibilities... as for Level 42, I think the decision is up to him, though I don't know about Mike. > But there's one thing happening you must remember: It's just "not done" to > like music of "former" popstars. > We must accept that the Level 42 guys are history in that sense. Couldn't agree more. Lots of my friends slag me off when they find out I listen to Level 42 and other un-cool 80's music. &*Q#$ them I say, I listen to what I prefer! > From what I've read on the digest, Mark wanted to keep the Level 42 name, > but Mike didn't let him. Hmmm... why not, I wonder? > You are probably right. I can see Mark and Mike working again in the future, > but sure the music will be very different then. > We don't need a copy of SITL,TC or FN do we ? > I think that was one of the main points what kept me fan through the years. > while maintaining their own distinctive sound, L42 never made an album that > sounded like the one before. This includes the "danger" that you will have > some more and some less favorite albums. > Good artists always seek for new ways of doing things, creating something > new. The L42 guys are damn good artists Yeah, especially Mike was most probably behind the driving force of always "creating something new & unique songs" and not sounding all the same, album after album. Mike strived to meander his keyboard playing and sequencing in an always creative and fresh direction, according to him in "Play Rock Keyboards" (c) 1987. Nigel's signature quote: > ============================================ > "my theory that the majority is ALWAYS wrong shines brightly", Joe Parrington I had a good laugh on this one! I think I'll browse through the old digests of Dec '96 / Jan '97 and find myself a nice, outrageous, outspoken quote by Joe P. There are lots, believe me. :-) How about this one for starters: "You guys on the digest are fun to f*ck with". RIP Joe P! Joy wrote: > And finally, long hair, short hair, whatever. Any way you dress him up Mike L is > a fabulous babe. I swear he has a clone at my colleges gym. Needless to say I > always conveniently choose the nearest treadmill ; ) !!!! Watch out Mike! I wish sometimes I was a great pop star too. Sometimes. > Thank you L42, for refusing to sing about how great the 60's...okay, > the 70's...were and how your children lift your spirits blah blah > blah. I would have stopped giving you guys money after Running In The > Family if you had gone down that road. Hear, hear!! Re: G and FN debate: I agree that many people have good reason to slag off G and FN. But, these are two of my most favourite albums... look at the context of the time in which it was written (G, that is): Mark's divorce, the Gould brothers gone, the hassles with Polydor, and especially the death of Alan Murphy (a close friend of Mark). The Darker Side of life, everyone goes through it. Don't you too feel like that sometimes? In such times when I do, I grab that ink-black slobby CD with the 4 guys in a helpless boat on the cover and pop it into the player. Makes me realise that I'm not alone in the world when it comes to such things... and then I listen to tracks such as "Overtime", "Seven Years", "My Father's Shoes", etc. ... haven't they all just got beautiful bridge sections! And though I know the title track "Guaranteed" back to front, every drum hit, every clavi note, every guitar strum, every Rhodes chord (from listening to the thing 2000x times while writing a MIDI file from it), I STILL listen to it ever so often, especially to perk me up when I go for a drive. Plus at full volume. Speaking of MIDI files, some new ones will be ready in the next few weeks: The Chinese Way.mid - by me Something About You.mid - by me Kansas City Milkman.mid - by Sean Green & me Anyone else interested in MIDI files, especially Level 42 MIDI files, you can download them from Carl Mueller's website (http://www.forevernow.com/) or I can send you the ones I wrote (so far) directly, just drop me a line! Later gang, Charl Mr. Charl Mocke ISIS Information Systems (Pty) Ltd Cape Town South Africa E-mail: MockeC @ Telkom.co.za O/H Tel.: +27 (0)21 414-4720 A/H Tel.: +27 (0)21 854-8005 Pager: 088 002-8848 Cell.: ------------------------------ Subject: Level 42 is great! From: meier_christoph Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:03:11 +0200 Hi there, this is my first message since i'm in this "Club". I think that the discussion about Level 42's albums between the 80's and 90's is very interesting for some people. My personal opinion is, Level 42 made two fantastic albums in the last years. "Guaranteed" and "Forever Now" sounds great and I would say the songs on these CDs are brilliant. It's clear that a band like Level 42 change their style and don't make the same music between 15 years! That's for me important and not the question why Mark King and Mike Lindup are writing different songs on a CD? The new album "One Man" from Mark King is excellent. I saw him on his Solo-Tour in Lucerne (Switzerland) in March 1999! Christoph ------------------------------ Subject: Updated web site From: ElSavannah @ aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:27:57 EDT Hi everyone I just thought I would let you all know that I have updated my web site and have added a small but perfectly formed gallery section and the Links now all work to everyone's sites! If anyone out there wants me to add their site to mine as a link, mail me and let me know! lisa 'Mrs Pink' ------------------------------ Subject: L42 CODE From: "Dan Nesselroth" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:27:45 PDT Seeing as we all seem to do it, here is an attempt at a standardized list....with this the savvy amongst us can shut out the younger fans and form a highly specialized clique of fans. With the success of ebonics in the USA I see no reason we cannot have Levonics to ourselves. (this is a joke, so no nasty emails unless they contain praise...) Here we go. Level 42--L42 Level 42(album)--L42(A) Mark King--MK Wally Badarou--WB Mike Lindup--ML Phil Gould--PG Boon Gould--BG Alan Murphy--RIP (sick joke, sorry) Gary Husband--GH The Early Tapes--TET The Pursuit of Accidents--TPOA Standing in the Light--SITL True Colours--TC World Machine--WM Running In The Family-RITF Staring At the Sun--SATS Level Best--LB Guarunteed--G The Remixes--TR Forever Now--FN One Man--OM Influences--I Love Games--LG Lessons In Love--LIL Running In the Family(Song)--RITF(S) Something About You--SAY Children Say--CS You Cant Blame Louis--YCBL The Chinese Way---TCW Micro-Kid--MiK (to avoid confusion with MK) The Sun Goes Down--TSGD Hotwater-H For example, "Today I gave both LB and L42(A) a listen on CD and have noticed that most of the tracks on LB such as MiK, T, LIL and LG are editied down from the album. I realize that MK and ML held L42 together after PG and BG left and so songs like HIMH and S lack the funk energy of LG, RITF(S) HW, LIL, YCBL. I remember the vid of CS when PG and BG are noticable absent and am reminded of the panic I felt back in 87, just as RITF peaked in the market. The album was good, but it was no SITL and hardly came close to TC...at least WB is still helping out in the studio...I know MK rings him up at least twice a week with a new, unfocused melody." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: posters to trade & changing band line-ups From: "Richard Herren" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:10:11 -0500 I have two posters to trade, Staring at the Sun (promotional) & Level Best (promotional), excellent condition, in exchange for Running in the Family (tour), the one with all four lads in one excellent shot (my favourite band photo). Mail me if your interested. In reference to this comment: >....can anyone take bands that have had various and multiple line up changes over the years seriously?< Let's see: Van Halen, AC/DC, Depeche Mode, Genesis, & Pink Floyd, all of whom were successful with one lead singer (the primary focal point), lost him, & went on to greater (financial) success with a new one. If I were a record company exec, I would take all of them VERY seriously. That hardly even scratches the surface, especially considering the multitudes of succesful acts that have lost a drummer or guitarist, or both. ...& let's not forget Yes... -r