From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V99 #103 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 99 : Issue 103 1063 subscribers Today's topics: Forever Now questions Laurence F. GREEN Comparisons and Gresham Blues Stop slagging off the later albums! murgatroyd Gresham, L42's Peak and Other Bits... Mark Walsham Other places to buy Tin Man David J. Loundy New discussion: Will Level 42 Ever Form Again? Charl Mocke Another (yawn) "42 zone" experience Steve Robson Mike Lindup at Brighton 6/7th May Komedia Theat>> John.O'Connell Boney M, Groups, Macari's, HOI Pat Flanagan another 42 Spencer, Paul FN-bashing DonZipf SV: Level42 Digest V99 #102 LINDSKOG JENNY More on 42 Ronald Kuipers Can't walk you home Frank Mueller Tribute issues Dan Nesselroth Level42 Digest V99 #102 powerfm Sharing the wealth Pat Flanagan Basslines - Chinese Way David Kidd Forever Now defense? Pashman, Rob ------------------------------ Subject: Forever Now questions From: L.F.Green @ shu.ac.uk (Laurence F. GREEN) Organization: Sheffield Hallam University Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:12:09 -0000 Forever Now - possibly the best ever Level 42 album I completely and utterly disagree. I believe Mark has recently said that he was suprised Forever Now did not do well commercially and I fully agree with him. In fact, I actually believe that main factor in the break up of level 42 was the poor performance of Forever Now. I think it was a case of, 'look, that album is brilliant even if I say so myself, I can't do much better than that, if people don;t want to hear THAT, we might as well pack in'. That sums up for me what I think went through Mark and Mikes minds. That album could have had : Forever Now All Over You Love in A Peaceful World Tired Of Waiting One In A Million Learn To Say No Billys Gone ...all as singles easily. I just feel that after Guarateed, Forever Now just pulled out all the stops, back to the classic Level 42, a very crisp souding album. When we go up to the lake district, we always take Forever now with us, you just can't beat a sunny day with Forever now blaring out of the car. I hold RCA fully to blame for their CRUCIAL mistakes with this album, which, had it been handled correctly, could have catapulted Level 42 back to prominence. Now I just hope that Mark, Mike and Boon can see sense and get together to write another storming album. LOZ ------------------------------ Subject: Comparisons and Gresham Blues From: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:37:46 +0100 Regarding comparisons Anthony Kay Level 42 is not like Incognito and never will be. Why do we keep on having Incognito and Jamiroquoi mentioned on the digest so regularly as if they are a comparable artists ?? ......Level 42 were in a league of their own. In response: I couldnt agree more. Im a big Jamiroquai fan but fail to see the connection between any of the bands mentioned above. Regarding Gresham Blues - KNAPPT I can't believe that someone listed Gresham Blues as a hell track! Personally, i find great pleasure in playing that track and jamming with it (I play sax)! Am curious to know A) what other digesters think of the track In response: I love this track, it epitomises (spelling) the reason for my appreciation of L42. The most attractive thing about this bands music IMHO were their instrumentals. No offence to Mark or Mike's singing ability but you couldnt beat 6 or 7 minutes of energy driven music....especially when fortified by Phil's percussion and Marks bass, not to mention Mikes keyboards and Boons guitar. IMHO L42 never made a bad instrumental but they did release some dodgy singles in the later years. My opinions of course are purely personal and therefore not entirely open to debate. Having said that, there are some classics which stand out... out of sight, i want eyes, eyes waterfalling, well i could go on and on but I won't so bye. nick in zoo rick [fyi - my favorite Jamiroquai<->Level 42 "connection" is that drummer Derrick Mckenzie lists Phil Gould among his "influences"... not to mention that both Gary Barnacle and John Thirkell (aka the Henpecked Horns) have played with Jamiroquai... singer DC Lee has also played with Jamiroquai, a non-obvious connection for the ambitious fans out there. =) -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Stop slagging off the later albums! From: "murgatroyd" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:57:29 +0100 Why slag off Forever Now, Staring at the Sun and Guaranteed? I suspect it's something to do with a perverse form of snobbery or purism (the 'we were here first' syndrome!). I can confess that I was a little bit like that meself, having seen Queen as a support band at Leeds way back, and felt superior when people were 'finding' them in the late Eighties and even the Nineties! ('Of course, if you haven't heard Queen II you miss the references I would snobbily announce at posh dinner parties). However, I soon came to realise that any fan of my fave band is a good fan, and, although some of the stuff on the later albums were crap in my opinion, there was much that was good. This is my point with the L42 later album knockers! I didn't get into L42 until World Machine, and still don't own copies of albums before that - BUT, there is much that is good on the later albums despite them not hitting the highs of previous stuff. Examples are Model Friend, Billy's Gone and Talking in your Sleep on Forever Now; ALL Staring at the Sun (especially Man, Tracie and Over There) plus Lassoo the Moon, Seven Years and Her Big Day off Guaranteed. Yes I love Love Games, Mr Pink, Hot Water and The Chinese Way (heard in concert). I've got Changes and One Man. One day I'll get the early stuff (I'm pacing myself) and probably like it - ultimately, if I think it's their finest then I'll let you know. Chris M ------------------------------ Subject: Gresham, L42's Peak and Other Bits... From: "Mark Walsham" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:08:17 PDT Following up a couple of points in todays digest, first of all Gresham Blues is a great track. But then again I have a history of listening to blues material, so it was so cool to hear L42 play something like this! Not at all funky! Cool. Secondly, in my opinion, the band started to lose it's direction after World Machine/Running In The Family. IMHO L42 peaked in pure musical and lyrical content from L42 through to Standing In The Light (maybe upto True Colours). There is so much energy and passion in the earlier stuff, along with some deep issues, and can't really be touched by any of the later stuff. When I reach for a L42 album, it will normally be either Pursuit or Standing, these two albums are superb. Staring At The Sun was a real treat though, a real fresh sound again, but it all went wrong after this, as Guarenteed and Forever Now were very weak and I concur that by the time of Forever Now, they had passed their peak and were in decline. That doesnt mean to say that all the later stuff was no good, take a listen to 'Talking In Your Sleep' and 'The Bends', these are excellent tracks, but the rest is questionable. Thirdly, Mrs Pink, yes your right, the picture of Mike on the promo for the gig is scary. Cut it off, cut it off, cut it off!! Finally, I got a copy of 'Level 42 - The Remixes' on Sunday for 6.99, from HMV, check it out. Can someone confirm that Out Of Sight was also available on a 12" picture disc? See ya, Mark. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Not Hot, Not Cold, Not You, Not Me, Only Memory......" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: Other places to buy Tin Man From: "David J. Loundy" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:14:57 -0500 Knappt: I was told Boon's CD is also available from: http://www.musicshop.co.uk/AllMusic/RBp3.htm and http://www.artist-shop.com/ --David-- ______________________________________________________________________ David J. Loundy | E-Mail: David @ Loundy.com | WWW: http://www.Loundy.com/ "Donuts! Is there anything | Phone: (312) 332-0954 they can't do?" | E-Law Listserv: | Send a message reading "subscribe" --H. Simpson | to Loundy-request @ netural.com ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Subject: New discussion: Will Level 42 Ever Form Again? From: "Charl Mocke" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:01:09 +0200 Hi everyone... BTW my shirt size is 42. I noticed some mentions of what Level 42 would have been like had they still existed, and OM brought out as a L42 album... Obviously, we all would love Level 42 to form again... but will they? I mean, Mark is getting old (aren't we all...), and we have not heard of any collabarations between him and Mike since 1994. I think Mark is happy with his label at Eagle now, and with the albums he is releasing. And will Level 42 fit in with the (mostly) crappy music we hear today? Also, who owns the L42 label now? If Mark wants to form L42 again, must he get consent from Mike? Will Paul Crockford still be manager? It would be a very happy day (for us as fans!!) should L42 form again. But I think that their music will be very different then, even when only Mark & Mike are involved. Mark said he wrote OM keeping in mind to get away from the L42 type of music, so I don't think he is planning to form L42 anytime soon. Opinions anyone? Charl (sneezing a flu away) answer := 14 * 3; Mr. Charl Mocke ISIS Information Systems (Pty) Ltd Cape Town South Africa E-mail: MockeC @ Telkom.co.za O/H Tel.: +27 (0)21 414-4720 A/H Tel.: +27 (0)21 854-8005 Pager: 088 002-8848 Cell.: ------------------------------ Subject: Another (yawn) "42 zone" experience From: Steve Robson Organization: Cadence Design Systems Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:22:03 +0100 Well beat this... six year old daughter proving she could count to a hundred; there between forty one and forty three; you guessed it! Forty two. Wierd huh? Nope. Steve UNIX etc. etc. ------------------------------ Subject: Mike Lindup at Brighton 6/7th May Komedia Theatre From: John.O'Connell @ ns.equant.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:30:20 +0100 I've been speaking to the box office today and there are 30 tickets left for the first night due to an oversight. The theatre is selling 210 tickets max each night and seats are on a first come gets nearest the stage basis. The second night still has plenty left. The Komedia web site gives a second booking office number for the Brighton Festival at the Dome Theatre - there are no more tickets allocated to this box office, you must use the Komedia office. The box office number is +44 (0)1273 647100 and the tickets are £7.50 each with a 30p booking/postal fee per ticket. .... I didn't come here to try and please you, I don't want you to rescue me........ ------------------------------ Subject: Boney M, Groups, Macari's, HOI From: Pat Flanagan Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:16:36 -0500 >And while I'm at it, (and this is just my personal opinion): Boney M (they >were >phoney, I take it you all realize that) >and a lot of the other "artists" mentioned recently, SUCK LIKE HELL ! I'm ambivalent on the subject of Boney M (as I haven't heard enough of their stuff to form an opinion), but I would like to point out an interesting bit of trivia -- they were put together by the same man, Frank Farian, that was behind the Milli Vanilli project. That said, I LIKE Milli Vanilli's music, so maybe I should check out Boney M. :D Music is music, it doesn't matter who makes it or who dances in the video. Music is music. >Level 42 is not like Incognito and never will be. Why do we >keep on having Incognito and Jamiroquoi mentioned on the >digest so regularly as if they are a comparable artists ?? Probably because a disproportionate amount of people who are on this digest also like those groups. Same with Tears For Fears and Swing Out Sister. It just be that way. >Btw, I walked past Macari's the other day in Charing Cross Rd - >is that not where Mark used to work ? Mark used to work therein. >Another strange 42 happening to add to the list - My favourite thing in the >whole world - Fried Hoi Shredded Beef and egg fried rice - yep, you guessed >it - number 42 from our local chinese takeaway........ Let me steal AG's bombastic thunder by pointing out -- hahaha, you spelled "hot" wrong, hahaha, "Hoi", like "Hoi Polloi", hahaha. Sorry, that's as far as I can stretch it out, I'm sure AG could get at LEAST three paragraphs of material out of that (and another five out of my post here). ____________________ PFPD -- newmedia marketing consulting a limited liability company PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 v:616.663.2250 -- competitive business advantages through creative technology ------------------------------ Subject: another 42 From: "Spencer, Paul" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:27:47 +0100 (British Summer Time) I don't think anyone else has posted this one... In Bristol you can't help but notice the advertisement for... Now that's what I call music....42! A rather good summary of LFT or L42 whichever acronym you can decipher :-) ---------------------------------------- Paul Spencer http://www.lawnavenue.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Subject: FN-bashing From: DonZipf @ aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:18:16 EDT > MY impression of Forever Now is that Level 42 reached a point where they had > gone way to far beyond their peek. > > It was released just for the sake of having yet another album out and keeping to > their contract agreement, rather than for the right reasons of releasing something > that was both commercially and musically acceptable in the true Level 42 vein in > my opinion. The "true Level 42 vein"? And just what IS that? Were they supposed to keep regurgitating "Love Games" over and over and over and over.......? Artists, by necessity, must evolve, and FN is a sublime result of L42's evolution. I agree with Greg about the consistently high quality of the songs on FN. One of the reasons I love Level 42 is that they weren't stuck in 1980 (like some of their fans). And GUARANTEED is a bloody great album, too!!! :o) > One Man takes Mark King back on top form - if only the band had waited longer, > got back together, and released One Man as a Level 42 album instead of Forever > Now. UGHH!!! Gag - spit - hack.... One Man, while itself an interesting curiosity of evolution, is by NO stretch of the imagination a Level 42-quality album. It isn't that good. I appreciate the stylistic motifs on the album, but the songs just aren't that well-written. Peace - Z. ------------------------------ Subject: SV: Level42 Digest V99 #102 From: "LINDSKOG JENNY" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:26:33 +0200 >Subject: heaven and hell >From: KNAPPT @ ldcorp.com (KNAPPT) >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:21:33 -0400 > I can't beleive that someone listed Gresham Blues as a hell track! > Personally, i find great pleasure in playing that track and jamming > with it (I play sax)! Am curious to know A) what other digesters > think of the track and B) what are the reasons for disliking it? Oh, I can't believe it! Someone actually asked for my opinion! ;) A) I looove Gresham Blues!! B) I'll pass on that... ------------------------------ Subject: More on 42 From: "Ronald Kuipers" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:38:54 +0200 Hi all, Oke another number 42 appearance on Dutch soap series "Goede tijden, slechte tijden" (Good times, bad times) the Alberts famaly (Robert & his wife) live at number 42. Waiting . . . . . . . .Ronald ------------------------------ Subject: Can't walk you home From: "Frank Mueller" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:29:16 +0200 Does anybody know when "Can't walk you home" was recorded? It was released as the B-Side of "The Sun Goes Down" but it doesn't sound like it's from the "Standing In the Light"-Sessions. Since it was produced by Mike Vernon could it be an outtake from "The Pursuit Of Accidents" Maybe it was an unfinished song. IMHO the keyboard-parts don't meet the high standards of Level 42 at that time. But the bassline definitely does. I think the song was composed around the bassline. Frank HEAVEN: Micro-Kid (Live at Wembley) HELL: Two Hearts Collide ------------------------------ Subject: Tribute issues From: "Dan Nesselroth" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:38:45 PDT Hans, I was only kidding about the Carpenters. I hate them and was the first to open a bottle of bubbly when Karen permanently vanished into thin air. That reminds me....comedian Dennis Leary said once: "If Karen Carpenter had eaten the sandwich that Mama Cass choked on, both would be alive today!" As to Boney M being "Fake". I suppose that depends on what you consider to be legitimate. Even L42 lyp-synched on TV and posed for posters.... I do not belive in Fake music or stern genres. Even the Spice Girls and Milli Vanilli put out music that people enjoyed. It was in the standard octives, with notes and melody etc. If the image was contrived for the market and the band selected through modelling auditions, that hardly illegitimizes the pleasure the music or images bring some people. I hate contrived bands too, but will consume pop melodies that make my feet move. Besides, Boney M wrote the music...at least F. Farian did. And those women had AMAZING voices. Okay....who else for the Tribute Album? (keep in mind this is a joke) Nine Inch Nails singing She Cant Help Herself Iggy Pop singing Autumn (Paradise is Free) Ringo Starr singing Love Meeting Love Tears For Fears singing Freedom Someday (if only to have them sing something that does not make you want to lie on the floor and die) The Nylons singing Over There Wayne Newton singing Heaven in My Hands Billy Idol singing Silence AHHHHH! But what tribute albums would you like to Hear LEVEL 42 singing on?! Here are my picks for Kick ass L42 Covers (this is NOT a joke) "I Feel Sanctified" by the Commodores "Disco Inferno" by the Trammps "SUPERSTITION" BY STEVIE WONDER YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! "America is Sexy" by Paul Hyde "On the Good Foot" by James Brown "Crosseyed and Painless" by Talking Heads, but only if PHIL sings it. ------------------------------ Subject: Level42 Digest V99 #102 From: powerfm @ mail.netconnect.com.au Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:49:22 +1000 > The web is mightier than the sword...... And how..... Spaldo ------------------------------ Subject: Sharing the wealth From: Pat Flanagan Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:40:23 -0500 MIDI fans, lookie what I found. Some good stuff here. Don't ever say I never gave you anything. ____________________ PFPD -- newmedia marketing consulting a limited liability company PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 v:616.663.2250 -- competitive business advantages through creative technology ------------------------------ Subject: Basslines - Chinese Way From: "David Kidd" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:54:16 +0100 Alessandro Maccari wrote :- >I remember a few days ago discussions about the bass note in The >Chinese Way's riff, is it a G or a G sharp? well, Basslines by J. >Hubbard (that some of you mentioned also in the digest) reports the >bassline (as you would expect from the title!) and the infamous note >is a G flat. So bass players, bend it, but don't sharpen it. Sorry mate, but if you look carefully, the note that everyone has questioned IS printed as 'G' (no sharps or flats) in the book. The 'G flat'/'F sharp' note you refer to is part of the higher run in the SECOND half of the main riff, which is correct. What surprises me is that Joe Hubbard didn't mark the infamous note of discussion with a vibrato sign..... Laterz, D. ===================================================================== Dave Kidd - Ilford, Essex, England. 'We're a virus with shoes, OK...that's all we are.' Bill Hicks 1961-1994 ===================================================================== ------------------------------ Subject: Forever Now defense? From: "Pashman, Rob" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:25:07 -0400 What is the deal with people who "write off" L42's later work? Yesterday's post destroying the previous day's post in support of FN was something I couldn't understand, although I respect the opinion. I don't want to get really technical but I think FN was an even stronger release than Guaranteed and was an interesting cross between a "return to form" and an almost tribute to melodic 70's soul (?). Maybe it's because I got into L42 in 1990 that I don't have a predisposition to rate their earlier material above the later stuff. If I were there from the 1st album onward, maybe I would see RITF as the apex of their career and then a gradual fall in quality, but I though that maybe when you throw in the bsides, you get a long and not always perfect record but FN, when cut to its 12 or 14 best songs, is an amazing swan song (hopefully not actually!). For an album created (produced, engineered) mostly by the members of the band, it is a great example of seasoned veterans putting their best foot forward (even though they may have had the demise of the band-after the tour-on the table already) showing the listener how an album should be put together-pure professionalism. Also, when I need a recording to test a stereo system or studio sound FN immediately comes to mind-just like in the 80's how Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms would be in every CD player at your favorite electronics store. Hearing now from MK about the state of the band at the time is surprising considering the quality of the material they put together. Anyone?