From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V97 #2 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 97 : Issue 2 457 subscribers Today's topics: Radio material, lyrics Steve Robson Subscriber info Lars-Ove Karlsson Level 42 collection Michel Buis The official Level 42 Digest CD-ROM! dirk.vael Joe P (sorry) and New Tracks Richard Smith Level Video's JNSMITH Someone Drop A Bomb? BPHILLIPS Is It Live or Is It Wembley? BPHILLIPS Jakko CD"S Anne Painter LEVEL42 SINGLES: Shuford's reply pattonse Finding World Machine UK Version Michael Monsen LEVEL 42 and David Lynch's Dune pattonse Subjectless... Daniel James LEVEL 42 for sale pattonse The Return Of Bass Corner/Shameless Plug For My>> Jason Bell And now here's something really different... J Shuford Bits (not Naughty) Randall L Collins Im back Laurence Green Its LOZ with All She Wants Laurence Green All She Wants/Tired/Corn Pat Flanagan Bass Taste, then my segue into babbledom Marc_Dupuis (Digest) Love in a Peaceful World ByrdLvl42 A new member Sariane E. Leigh German N Collier The *Last* word on Joe Elson Trinidad introduction message Jwall6653 San Francisco Levelheads?? RBnDk Hmmmm .. Mark Hughes The Early Tapes Anne Painter CD Capacity Jeff Grous Billy's Gone versions Jeff Grous ------------------------------ Subject: Radio material, lyrics From: steve @ redac.co.uk (Steve Robson) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:37:59 GMT What ho! Joe Parrington mused: > The frusterating thing is when you fall in love with a song, but for > some unexplanable reason, it is just not RADIO material. I know what you mean. I share the frustration that "the sort of music I want to hear" just doesn't get played on any radio station to which I have access (I'm in the UK). Maybe it's part of 'getting older' but it seems to me that the "Radio 1's" stick to a monotonous playlist and the "Local Stations" stick to a formula of "oldies-but-goodies". (cue up Bachman-Turner-Overdrive "You ain't seen nothin' yet" - UK joke - sorry!). There just doesn't seem to be any station (I look forward to contradiction here) that plays more or less anything: singles, album tracks, remixes, extended mixes, live tracks and all both new and old. The best one can expect is the odd specialist programme, usually 10:00pm weekdays or 4:00pm Sundays. The odd thing is, if radio doesn't broadcast the widest spectrum of different music, how will bands and artistes reach wider audiences? We can't all get out to live venues every night of the week and again, are you going to fork out to see a band you've never heard? (personally I can't afford to buy an album or go to a gig if I've never heard or heard of the band) Hmmm, didn't mean to go on so long and it's off-topic too! (no antagonism intended here) > It has always drived me nuts since I think I know all theother lyrics to > their songs. This eludes me. Kind of like the WHOA BE TIED line from > Tired of Waiting. I'd guess the phrase is "Woe betide". Have you been using Loz's voice dictation software? (Level) best regards, Steve e-mail: steve_robson @ redac.co.uk Zuken-Redac (UK) Ltd. Tel: 0118 966 9955 (or) 0836 580066 66 Suttons Park Avenue Fax: 0118 935 2899 Reading BERKSHIRE Web: http://www.redac.co.uk RG6 1AZ UK ------------------------------ Subject: Subscriber info From: "Lars-Ove Karlsson" Organization: IAR Systems AB Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:03:15 +1 steve @ redac.co.uk (Steve Robson) wrote: > Personally I wonder if Joe joined the digest with no other intention than > to stir things up? I don't mind. Don't rise to the bait, he'll get > bored and go away. On a parallel to this I got to wondering things like > 1. For each subscriber, how many times have they posted? How many have > NEVER done so? (not that it matters) Nowadays, I'm mostly a lurker on the list, mainly because I don't have anything "new" to say about Level 42. But I look forward to the digest every day, I don't think there has ever been a day with no messages, and now I've got the re-releases of the albums to look forward to too. > 2. For each subscriber, how long have they been subscribing? Me, I've been on the digest the past 3 years, since december 1993 when we all talked about the singles from the Forever Now album. I think I missed two month of digests at the beginning, :-( I also subscribe to my home account so I don't have to miss any digests, which means I have two accounts on the digest. This brings me to another question, how many have more than one account ? > And about Loz's news and these 'new' tracks: > WOWEE!! HOP DANG GOOD JOB!! DEEP JOY AND SPANGLED DOODLES!! And something in exotic swedish: s=E5 var 1997 =E5r r=E4ddat, fler Level 42 skivor som jag bara m=E5ste ha. LOZ: I'd very much like a copy of the new remixes you've got, could you let me know of the tracks ? Someone mentioned they once liked Spandau Ballet, I hope you've got the Prince's Trust Concert 1989 where Level 42 backs Spandau Ballet on two tracks. I also thought the Swing Out Sister track Breakout was good on that concert, until I bought the Live At The Jazz Cafe CD. That version is so great :-) /Lars-Ove -- e-mail: love @ iar.se Murphy's laws on technology: After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done. ------------------------------ Subject: Level 42 collection From: "Michel Buis" Date: 2 Jan 1997 12:04:58 -0000 Hi everyone, I've just built myself a new homepage and I've put my Level 42 collection on it as well. Maybe you can have a look at it and tell me what I still miss, because I'm not quite sure if I've got it all.. The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/5059/index.html Thanks, Michel Buis BTW: Zaphod, any news on the CD?? Did you get my money yet????? -- "Act and you shall have dinner, think and you shall be dinner" ------------------------------ Subject: The official Level 42 Digest CD-ROM! From: "dirk.vael" Date: 2 Jan 97 13:32:02 Heya guys'n gals It's about that L42 CD-ROM I'm writing here: I'm dead serious about this project and I wanna make this disc asap. The price would be the cost of media and postage (around $10 to $11). Of course other 'burners' will be used to produce a large amount of copies. I'll galdly take care of all European 'pressings', some 'burners' in the US should take care of US Digesters (so the price of p&p is reduced to a minimum). And yes, even Joe can obtain a copy with no extra charges I just need YOUR input as a Digester! Please post your suggestion on what should be on this disc just like we did for the B-sides & Live CD. And if you have data to share, let's collect it at a general site. Please post the following msg to the Digest: A. how should the CDROM be called B. how should the CDROM be organized (structured I suppose!) C. what should be on the CDROM in general My humble suggestions for C are: - all the Digests in ASCII and/or HTML format (from day 1 till as recent as possible) - all lyrics from all songs (including live or b-side tracks or extra choruses/scat etc) - biographies of all L42 members (with pictures) (ASCII and/or winWord format) - other articles from magazines or newspapers or whatever (scanned or ASCII) - a very detailed discography (with scans of as much covers as possible) - a very detailed bootleg list (see a few Digests ago for that issue) - useful addresses from members, CDstores, websites and me ;-) - loads of other exclusive pictures (literally hundreds of MBytes) in JPEG and GIF format (Those with exclusive stuff, (perhaps your face!)...warm up your scanners!!!!) - some audio interviews in ADPCM or MPEG3 format (doesn't use too much diskspace) - some videoclips in MPEG format? (esp the recent ones) >>I don't have MPEG capture tools<< - the L42 screensaver for Windoze - all available MIDI files (or Protracker etc formats) - some cool samples to be used as jingles in operating systems (in WAV, AIFF, IFF format) - some cool excerpts in WAV/AIFF/IFF/MPG/ADPCM format of Live/Remix/bass solos or whatever - some cool backgrounds in various resolutions for use as backdrops (BMP, IFF) - ???some (intranet) websites fully off-line (if required) - ???some advertisements (if anyone wants) - ???levelfest reports, if they exist - all the tools to view the data for PC, MAC and AMIGA (audio-players/convertors, picture/movie viewers, browers, (de)compressors etc) - some other 'useful' tools ;-) - ???some compressed stuff to hook this CDROM onto a server and allowing to ftp the files from specific directories (I prefer RAR for PC, LZX for Amiga; dunno what's best for Mac) AND NO VIRUSES (all files will be checked before making the iso-image!) And if we're running out of Megabytes to fill the whole disc, why not make it a mixed mode disc with a few CDDA tracks as a bonus (I wonder what those tracks would be???????) Tech speccies for the moment: I suggest using ISO 9660 level 2 format which supports long filenames and international characters, all the rest is not important to the user (perhaps anyone with an original PVD entry would be nice to hear from). I better omit the newest ISO standard, which allows to attach 256 bytes file comments to each file. And I'll also omit the CD copy-protection modes ;-))) Full support for Win31, Win95, Mac, Amiga and others on demand. I cannot really program well, so if anyone want to program so sort of interface (Java, C++ or whatever), please contact me. *** I ask those who are very competent with CD mastering, HTML, compression tools, A/V tools and other computer-related stuff, to contact me so we can arrange some sort of consensus on how to do it exactly *** I know a lot of all this stuff, but it's never too late to learn even more from others! ----- Greetz to Thomas Harron, Mike Petty and Dennis Bazylinski. Now I just hope that Zaron Michael Frumin gives a sign of life to me (or at least the $20 he owes me!). And it would be nice too if Jeremy Theal drops a line to tell me what happened with that CD5 I sent him. And I'll burn those Wembley87 CDs and the Enschede91 CD this weekend, if I have some time. And finally I hope Joe was not 'making waves that will echo through the years'. So let's do what Eric said: all this "battering" won't change much except the size of our mailboxes. That's all folks! Send your replies & suggestions to the Digest (so everyone can read and modify/comment the proposals). Personal replies to dirk.vael @ arthurandersen.com If anyone want to send me pictures or large attachments, please send it to dirk.vael @ ping.be Now I'm outta here, it's upto you to speak now Greetz to ALL subscribed Digesters (even Joe Public) Dirkies PS: msg to Eric: what's that title you used for the Dished Out Bums sample on your website? ["A Glass of Chianti" is from Yoshi Toshi Artists "In House We Trust, vol. 1" on Tribal America -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Joe P (sorry) and New Tracks From: rsmith @ zipmail.co.uk (Richard Smith) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:05:58 GMT Only just caught up on the last weeks digests, you see I have been reading a book I got for Xmas called "How to make friends and influence people" by some Joe P guy !! It's all been said by now, so I'll just agree with all that Nigel put, as he made the points far better than I could ! After all I am just a sad pathetic low life too ignorant to know that my lack of IQ means I can not live as full, complete and contented life as some !!! Nigel, Eric, Lolita Well put !! Cool (opps sorry ol'Joe won't like that will he !) > Once again, my theory that the majority is ALWAYS wrong shines brightly. Joe, are you really sure that you understand the Question ?????????? Besides as we all know THE ANSWER is 42 !!! {INTRO FROM HEAVEN IN MY HANDS IN BACKGROUND (stirring music !?!), MARCH UP AND DOWN WITH TIN HAT ON, DEEP CHURCHILL TYPE VOICE, MODE ON} It is time for the members of this digest to stand up and fight this foe from within who threatens our very existence. We must fight him on the keyboards, we must fight him on the bandwidths, we must fight him on the........ Daa da da da dada da da daaa da da da dada daa da da (ever tried typing the Dambusters theme tune ?) {INTRO FROM HEAVEN IN MY HANDS IN BACKGROUND (stirring music !?!), MARCH UP AND DOWN WITH TIN HAT ON, DEEP CHURCHILL TYPE VOICE, MODE OFF} Seriously though .. let's get back to talking Level 42 with a smile on our faces, if only we could think of a happy topic that could stimulate as much reaction. But I guess there is only one Guy on this digest smart enough to do such a thing so.. Go Joe, Go Joe, Go Joe, Go Joe, Go Joe, Go Joe, (Bet that is too subtle for him !!) Sorry guys and gals just had to get that off my chest Loz, excellent news on the new tracks, video etc It means that there is now the equivalent to a "New Album" to come from the boys this year !! Will the Polydor/RCA stuff be "remixed" (sorry Nigel), different versions etc or just re-released ??? Happy New Year to All (yes ALL) Richard You've just experienced the Cybersensational Smith ! "Now the Time has come to show you how I feel....." ------------------------------ Subject: Level Video's From: JNSMITH @ MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:55:15 -0600 (CST) Lately we have had a lot of requests for the different videos. Here in Memphis, Planet Music regularly carries all except for Guaranteed Live. I have this on laserdisc but since I got married and moved away from my lunatic roommate, don't have access to a laserdisc machine. I'm looking to get one soon and will continue to make copies for people who want them. I'll post on the digest when I get a machine. Anyone who wants any of the other videos let me know and we'll work out how to send the money and I'll pick them up for you. Just send A PERSONAL e-mail. Thanks. JOSEPH N. SMITH P.S. Notice I'm using my full name so I don't offend the OTHER Joe and so no one else gets us confused! P.P.S. I'm going on my honeymoon this weekend and won't be back until Wednesday so if you e-mail me and don't get a response, that is why! ------------------------------ Subject: Someone Drop A Bomb? From: "BPHILLIPS" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 09:37:55 CST WELLLLLLL! I NEVER (and probably won't, ever again!)!! Isn't it amazing how one bad apple can stir up the whole bunch! From one "lurker" to other "lurkers" and the digest as a whole, I say "Good show!" I like the digest just fine as it is. It is very informative on Level matters and yet not so "impersonal" that comments about other bands, issues and our own lives in general are not allowed. I think the "fluff" floating in and out of the digest from week to week simply adds a bit of spice to the postings. I have never felt that I was not getting enough Level 42 info or I would have "unsubscribed" a long time ago. And speaking of "unsubscribing", Mr. Parrington if you are so dissatisfied with the digest GET OFF OF IT! There are plenty of others (450 or more) who are quite content with the format "as is". As for everyone's verbose and tactful responses, I say, "Good show, Elson, John Smith, Nigel, Jason Bell and LOZ!" Great defensive! And LOZ -- in your ear (whispered), I think you are THE authority and doing a great job at giving us up-to-the-minute Level reports. Keep up the good work! Well, that is my $2 worth (inflation you know). Good rebuttal for you too, Eric! Anyone smell something burnt? Blakester ------------------------------ Subject: Is It Live or Is It Wembley? From: "BPHILLIPS" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 10:16:12 CST Amanda - I must agree with my esteemed colleague Mark Tweedale. The Live at Wembley album is a must! I just got it myself and thoroughly enjoy it. The live renditions of Children Say and Running In The Family are my favorite tracks. Get it and listen to it often! Blake ------------------------------ Subject: Jakko CD"S From: Anne Painter Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:15:35 -0500 Dear Levelheads; Does ANYONE out there on the digest have Jakko M.Jakszyk CD's? I'd like to get copies on audio tape. Keith P.S.This Joe stuff is worthless. Don't waste the space and time to talk to this loser!! ------------------------------ Subject: LEVEL42 SINGLES: Shuford's reply From: pattonse @ plu.edu Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) John, Interesting that we ended up picking the same singles for Forever Now. The Bends was close on my list and would have been on my list. Hey, if Bohemian Rhapsody and November Rain can be released, then so can The Bends. I disagree with your choice of the RCA Billy's Gone rather than the new version. I don't even listen to the old one anymore. As far as the rest of your choices... uh... I don't know that alot of those songs would fly over here. You of allpeople have talked about the mentality of American audiences when it comes to taste in music. Do you really thing songs like Freedom Someday and Love in a Peaceful World could work over here? I'm not buying it. What three songs would you have picked off of True Colours and Standing in the Light? Mine would be: * Living It Up * Micro-Kid * Nothing - no other single here! * Hot Water * The Chant Has Begun * Nothing -nothing!!!!! Again, this is only for the American mentality (it's a universal waste of mind). ------------------------------ Subject: Finding World Machine UK Version From: phydoux @ utw.com (Michael Monsen) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:55:30 GMT Hello all, I used the search engine at the Digest Homepage to try and see if this subject had been covered before, and I couldn't find anything. So, here's my question: It appears that World Machine (UK version) is not available anywhere. CDNow doesn't have it, CDConnection doesn't have it, etc... can it be found *anywhere*? Is it even available in the UK? I have the US release, and I'd really like to get my hands on the UK version so that I have those tracks that aren't found on the US version (I Sleep On My Heart, Coup D'Etat.) In light of the fact that (via Loz's sources) Polydor appears to be ready to re-release albums with extra tracks, would I be better off just waiting for the re-release instead of trying to track down a copy of the UK release of World Machine? Loz? Any advice? I seem to recall that there was some UK fan who was offering to buy and ship the UK version (supposedly because shops in the UK still have it) to us poor fans in the US who were willing to wire them the money. Is that fan still subscribed to the digest? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- Michael Monsen phydoux @ utw.com (home) phydoux @ byu.edu (school) ------------------------------ Subject: LEVEL 42 and David Lynch's Dune From: pattonse @ plu.edu Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 09:57:55 -0800 (PST) Anyone ever seen the added footage of Dune on tv? Anyone ever notice that in one of the bonus scenes that Patrick Stewart is playing Dune Tune on his little mandolin? No, really. So in Twin Peaks, when David Lynch was wearing those headphones, I bet money he was listening to Something About You. ------------------------------ Subject: Subjectless... From: Daniel James Organization: Mathsoft, Seattle Division Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 10:06:55 -0800 > 3) On "Play Me (Resurgence Version)" there's a part that Mike sings in > French. Would someone please tell me what he saying. Use the digest search engine. These words were translated a few months ago if I remember correctly. > Two Hearts Collides is one of my favorite songs from the band. However, > I just don't think that in 1988, if any year at all, that American > audiences would appreciate the song. I am curious if you can think of > any other songs, along the same vain, that were hits around that time. I > can't think of one. I tend to agree--it doesn't have that catchy, mindless melody that seems to be what grabs the American audience these days. This was one of my favorite songs on this album because it was the one that seemed to be the most true to Level 42's past, but I can't picture it on the radio. I think it was you Joe who said that Tracy would've never made it--this one I disagree with. It's not mindless, but it definatly has a catchy tune, and it's got a beat (or maybe it's a groove, either way you could dance to it). > Here's something I hope I can get a response to. (digest or e-mail) I'm > after the video Fait Accompli. Any sources other than CD Banzai? If you're not comfortable ordering from them (I've never had a problem with any of the online sources, including the previously mentioned CD Europe--they were the only folks able to find a copy of the White Funky for me) then give Tower a try. I found *TWO* copies of this on the shelf a few years ago (which was fortune for me since the first copy I'd bought was defective). In any case, they may be able to get ahold of a copy for you, but I bet you end up paying more and waiting longer than if you go through CD Banzai. > GUARANTEED: > **All She Wants > **Overtime > **If You Were Mine > **Guaranteed > **My Father's Shoes > **As Years Go By I think that "A Little Love" would've gone nicely on the Adult Contemporary stations. That's actually my personal favorite from Guaranteed. > But when you think of a band like Mikeand > the Mechanics, you think: > > THE LIVING YEARS (Paul Carrack) > SILENT RUNNING (Paul Carrack) > not > TAKING IN (Paul Young- not that Paul Young) > ALL I NEED IS A MIRACLE (Paul Young) Actually, I think of "The Living Years" and "All I need is a Miracle" although me being the not-always-so-attentive person that I am, it didn't even really occur to me that they were two different lead singers. But I agree with what was said before that many different bands have had different lead singers and gotten away with it. However, Level 42 with the limited exposure that they've had would probably be associated more with the sound of the lead singer (Uh, that would be Mark in this case) than by the songs they sing. Then again, that wouldn't really explain the "Something About You, yeah, wasn't that UB40?" thing, if it really exists outside of the mind of Mr. Mark King... > > Level 42 Digest Volume 96 : Issue 367 > > Jeezuz, Eric! Shouldn't that be Volume 97 : Issue 1 ?? > This List sucks!! ;-) Of course it sucks, we all know that right? But seriously, don't forget about leap year...! Mumbling in my sleep... Dan (who's girlfriend was kind enough to slip a Wallace & Gromit video in his stocking) P.S. May 1997 be an excellent year for everyone, as I have predicted it will be for me!!! ------------------------------ Subject: LEVEL 42 for sale From: pattonse @ plu.edu Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 10:08:08 -0800 (PST) A friend of mine recently told me he was planning on taking his Level 42 cd down to The Wherehouse for in-store credit. I told him that he would probably have better luck on the Digest. SO since he doens't have a computer to post, here goes: * Level 42 - self titled cd * World Machine -UK * Overtime cd single with At This Great Distance * My Father's Shoes cd single with Interview * Interview Picture Disc with Mark King on both sides (pre-World Machine) the rest of the stuff I don't think would be of any interest here *ALSO* as far as my collection goes, I discovered two extra copies of Bass Player magazine with Mark King on the cover that I had bought and thought I lost until discovering them in a box in my garage last week. I have one framed (which I am not parting with) and two for sale. $10 a piece sounds fair. I will pay postage. crazy but true, Joe ------------------------------ Subject: The Return Of Bass Corner/Shameless Plug For My Website From: Jason Bell Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:21:21 -0800 Hi All, Welcome to 1997. Question : Are there bass players out there with unanswered questions ?? Well if I can help, I will. Tens of satisfied email-ers. Also, I finally completed my website. The URL is on my below. Message to Barry : Forgot to take your address to work today, so I didn't post the Level Best video, sorry. I'll do it over the weekend. I have a PAL copy of the Live At Wembley video if anyone wants to put an offer in. As I am with close friends, I am looking for a good home for : i) Making Music Magazine, Issue 1. Full interview with Mark from April 1986 whilst recording 'Lessons In Love'. Pretty rare stuff by all accounts, which is why I framed it about four years ago. ii) Basslines/Pop Basslines by Joe Hubbard. For bass players only. Basslines has transciptions for 'The Chinese Way', 'Dune Tune', 'Sun Goes Down' and 'Heathrow'. Plus you get all my pencil scrawls from 1986 when I couldn't read music ! iii) Head To Head (Aerobiocs For Bass) by Stephen King. Yep, I'm letting it go ! I've had a few begging letters about this book. I don't use it so someone else can enjoy the pleasures from it. LOADS of Level 42 transcriptions, including calling 'Hot Water' 'Dirty Water' ?? There you are, I'm having a bit of a clear out. That doesn't mean I'm copping out of Level 42 though, no way. Peace. Jason Bell EMAIL : xdr44 @ dial.pipex.com HTTP : http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/xdr44 "Where We Are Going, Is How We Get There" Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Subject: And now here's something really different... From: J Shuford Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:36:05 -0800 (PST) Dear Digest Members: So far I have been silent on the whole "Joe" thread, as I knew that the Digest would be neck-deep in spam. I'm not here to condone Joe's posts. I have spoken via e-mail about them to him in the last few days. I'm also not here to try to smooth over any ruffled feathers. Joe has his opinions, as do the other members of the Digest. I tend to agree with Joe that the quality of the Digest could be higher and that we could seek more "news" and less "wastrel", but in all honesty it's hard to come up with "news" everyday on a band that has been defunct for 2 years and that most of us have already done a very thorough job talking about. It's only natural that other topics would come into play--other music, humor, personal requests, etc. We are, after all, a community of people joined together by a common interest. That doesn't mean that will all think that the same things are important to talk about, nor does it mean that the common interests stop at Level 42. Further, no one is paid to run or to contribute to this Digest. It is meant, if I read Eric Hansen's philosophy correctly, as a place for us to comfortably gather and talk. I'm not always pleased with the direction of threads, the questions from "newbies" who need to read the FAQ before they start asking things, etc. But having attended other Digests, where the moderator is a strict taskmaster about being "on topic", I have personally appreciated the leeway Eric has allowed. And sooner or later, I think, major contributors to the Digest come to "refocus" their postings. When Loz came on the Digest, for example, he criticized it for not talking all and only Level 42. He also talked about the link between Level 42's music and Christianity, as well as searching for fellow Christian Levelheads. In time (and with some gentle and not-so-gentle correction by other members), I think Loz has come to see that there's just a different way of doing things here. Loz, if I am not speaking out of turn, reflects the community spirit of the Digest, and he consistently provides us with news that we might not get otherwise. Okay, that being said (apologies for the length), I want to set the record straight on Joe Parrington, if I can. I know Joe better than anyone else on this Digest. As we have all seen, Joe has strong opinions, and he sticks by those opinions. He also isn't afraid to speak up when he thinks something is wrong. As I have indicated above, while I agree with some of Joe's criticisms of the Digest content, I would not have proceeded in this manner (though I do recall challenging the "lurkers" on the Digest to come forward and speak up about 2 years ago in what might have seemed a "flame"). As for Joe's contributions to Level 42 fans, they're too numerous to count. Joe and I, along with people like Bob Considine and Kevin Cox, started working independently on promoting Level 42 in the States back in 1991. All of these people, and others whom worked with us, developed relationships with Paul Crockford, Phillippa Watson, and even Randy Goodman at RCA New York (VP-Marketing). It is my experienced in dealing with Crockford that 1) truly informed fans often know more about Level 42 than he does, and 2) that he is maddeningly hard to get ahold of and to gain a response from. But the fact remains--from anyone who knows me or the other three people I have mentioned in this paragraphy--that we did have a line to Crockford too. Otherwise, Crockford would not have offered to hold passes for us for the final show at Royal Albert Hall, no? Now, Bob Considine's contributions to this Digest are legendary with the "BobC Tapes." But I'd like to remind EVERYONE here of a few things about other American "pioneers" whose efforts predated their appearance on this Digest: 1) Kevin Cox and I designed the "America Is Calling Me--The Chant Has Begun" T-shirts that some of you (including Mike Payne) own. We did this project (through Crockford's approval) in 1992. 2) Patty Meacham and I imported "Guaranteed Live" on PAL Video in 1992. Joe Parrington ran off copies of that vid after it had been converted. It is not at the level of the subsequently released laserdisc, but Americans were able to receive it and enjoy it years earlier than they might otherwise. 3) At the risk of sounding self-aggrandizing, I ran the Prodigy Level 42 Fan Group, starting it up in 1992. We had approximately 50 different fans onboard. Kevin Cox, Bob Considine, Joe Parrington, and others were all onboard. There was also a Level 42 Fan Group on Compuserve around that time. These two Groups antedate the Digest, obviously. 4) Joe Parrington, as long as I have known him, has been actively involved in getting Level 42's music some airplay. First and most obviously came in his work as a DJ at a college radio station. Second and currently comes in his television program "Friday Night Revue" where he has done features on the band and uses their music for music beds. Joe has had this show for at least three seasons. 5) Joe and I hounded Crockford for copies of Forever Now so that we could take it around to radio stations in the Northwest and get it some American airplay. We were successful. I managed to get it a "New Music Review" thirty-minute spotlight on the major Adult-Contemporary station in Portland, and to get "Tired of Waiting" into their rotation. Another friend got "Romance" into the rotation on a similar station in Seattle. 6) Joe and I came up with Crockford's "ideas" to have a Level 42 Fan Hotline (originally, we planned it to be a US fan hotline, with a recorded message containing bits from Crockford and from the members of the band that we updated monthly) and to release a package of the Guaranteed and Forever Now videos. I could go on about this, how people like Joe have been responsible for providing Level 42 news to Level 42 fans before this Digest came into being, and how he's provided countless tapes and hunted down vinyl and CDs for Level 42 fans. But I can see everyone's eyes glazing over now, and my point should be clear. I might not have chosen to do things the way Joe did them the other day, but he is a loyal and dedicated fan without whom this Digest would suffer because it was people like him who did much of the work that people like Loz, Vince, Eric, Mike Payne, and Lazlo (and others--Winston, John V, Pat, Elson, etc.) did and continue to do. Thanks for your attention! Shuf shuf @ darkwing.uoregon.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Bits (not Naughty) From: rcol @ ix.netcom.com (Randall L Collins) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:56:11 -0800 Yes, indeed! What an interesting run of Digests we've had lately. Admittedly, it's been interesting reading but Eric is right. We need to put the Joe P. Chronicles aside and get back to what this digest has always been about. Yes, he did get way off line attacking our personal intregrities which had nothing to do with the digest itself, but he'll get over it....we'll get over it. I personally think the only way redemption can be had, is if Joe P. was to apologize for his PERSONAL attacks and generalizations, not his comments about the digest. Otherwise, let sleeping dogs lie.... OK, ENOUGH OF THIS GAY BANTER! I am looking for "World Machine" with the bonus track on it. I believe it's called "Take Care of Yourself'. It's available through many mail order companies but it doesn't indicate whether it has the bonus track on it or not. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Rob Kadel, Bill Wilson, Brian Shepard...... Did you guys receive my Christmas tape? If you have, I would like to know what you thought of it. Hope your holidays were good. Here's to a good Level 42 (or any other subject) year, Ran [Take Care of Yourself is on the "Level Best" compilation CD, not any version of World Machine. -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Im back From: Laurence Green <106265.1665 @ compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:53:45 -0500 Hello, Joe is one in a million, so like my mathematics teacher always tells me discard any of the freak data and use the others to find the correct average. Anyway, I remember when I first joined the digest and had no experience of e-mail and dived in head first and didn't do myself any favours, maybe Joe has done the same, but maybe not. Ironic really that all this talk about singles was started by Joe so here's my run-down on all the unreleased singles: From the early tapes album comes 'sand storm' which was to be the band's first single, it made a test pressing of around 200 copies which now fetch up to £150. The version on the 12 inch is three sections shorter than the LP version and is called sand storm L P cut. The next unreleased single is from pursuit of accidents and is of course, 'you can't blame Louis' this condition maidens the White label promo stage backed with love games and dune tune ('during June' as I speak) live it now fatuous around £40. Standing in the light is the next unreleased single it was scheduled to be released twice off the album of the same name it is not known whether copies of this exist but its scheduled release was noted in many sources, the 4 CD box set and the level 42 biography are two examples of places where its release date is noted, the booklet in the box set his it was backed with love making love and was to be released in November 83. Let's not forget 'clocks go forward ' which was to be the second single off Mark's album influences which made the White label promo stage and was released in this form to DJ's in a black cover which also contained photos and a press release. World machine was released unsuccessfully in America but White label promos were also pressed for the UK. Also as I recently found out children say was on the world machine master tapes and wasn't even considered good enough for the album, strange. Freedom Someday, had a 7 inch version mixed so possibly this was to be released, in the end this shorter version made the b-Side of the U S lessons in love releases. Two hearts collide was going to be released as a single that is why there was an extended version which wasn't used at the time but was placed on the remixes CD at a later date. On guaranteed, she can't help herself was going to be released, it was a toss up between this and my father's shoes personally I think she can't help herself would have done better in the charts than my father's shoes. And finally the album full of unreleased singles is forever now with three tracks that were mixed and ready for single releases, firstly Billy's gone which was scheduled to be released long before the forever now single, secondly learn to stay no which was to follow Billy's gone, and of course finally tired of waiting which people have rumoured possibly made a promo CD pressing but which would have been Level 10. Well, perhaps my style is different when I dictate my posts. Just as a special treat, here are the original lyrics to running in the family. I've got a scientific mind, the inquiring kind I always make the right connection Our dad ain't like the other guys He won a Nobel Prize for his stories He wrote a book that made them weep Took a quantum leap And pushed me in the same direction I read, and clearly understood Like he knew I would The first time he set eyes on me Looking back its so bizarre, it runs in the family All the things we are On the back seat of the car with Joseph and Emily, We only see so far and we all have our daddy's eyes, looking back its so bizarre I run the movie in my head watch it in my bed Any always play the starring role There's me with my dad in 15 years But it ends in tears when I leave home Each day I climbed the learning curve Never lose my never Till I come full circle in my soul Sounds strange but the mother of my child Wore my mother's smile The first time she set eyes on me Repeat chorus Hopefully this song will make the new CDs but I'm not sure it is on the Polydor Masters anyway not long to wait and I know there are some special treats waiting for us all, and that's not teasing. anyway, for those of you who like it here's the chorus neglected. Looking back its so bitter, it ruins in the fungi All the things week are, On the back streaked golf the car, with Joseph and anyway, We always see so flower, and we all have a daddy's eyes, Looking back exceptional bizarre Bye for now.... LOZ ------------------------------ Subject: Its LOZ with All She Wants From: Laurence Green <106265.1665 @ compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:53:39 -0500 Hi, But she needs to know that you'll always love her Like a hareem, in a desert sea In her big black boat 'gonna push your number Let your love sink in a sea of dreams. I hope John has put the version of All She Wants I sent him on CD, Its great. Hey, guess what. I just ran a text search on the digest home page for the words 'Level 42' and '42' and they didnt come up once! If anyone hasnt guessed I purposely try to spice up my digests and that gets up some peoples noses, but please understand, thats just the way it is. I have made tons of freidns on the digest and that makes me happy, so maybe it can affect our lives. I have even met people I met on the digest. I talked about my love life basically because I wanted to. I wanted to explain why I wasnt very enthusiastic about Level 42 at that time in case anyone wondered. I dont really see the digest as 460 people, because its not like getting up on stage or anything. I basically see it as the 20/30 people who write to it. If anyone cares I dont think Im the most knowledgeable person on the digest, thats proably Mike P or Lars-Ove K. I know I dont have the biggest collection. but I reckon I have the best contact with the band, and being as Im desperate to share it, I dont think its a bad thing to say it. Well, Im typing this but Im going to speak the rest, hope it comes out below this. the rest is down here \/ LOZ ------------------------------ Subject: All She Wants/Tired/Corn From: pfpd @ pobox.com (Pat Flanagan) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:06:31 -0500 (EST) > Does anyone know how to fill in this blank from All She Wants: > > BUT SHE NEEDS TO KNOW > THAT YOU'LL ALWAYS LOVE HER > LIKE _______________________ > IN A ________________________? I hear it as "like a harem in a desert scene" with harem being pronounced "hareem". Is this a British pronunciation, maybe? > It has always drived me nuts since I think I know all theother lyrics to > their songs. This eludes me. Kind of like the WHOA BE TIED line from > Tired of Waiting. Oh, Joe, that's "whoabetide" or "whoa betide", not tied. Now go away. :D Actually, I should probably apologize for my last post. Everyone has a right to be here and to voice their opinions, and it's not my place to criticize them, even if their postings are a turd in our ocean of corn, to mix-up a previously used eloquent metaphor. Pat Flanagan Publishing & Design PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 email: pfpd @ pobox.com website: http://www.pobox.com/~pfpd TOTALMEDIA PUBLISHING: Print * Disk * Interactive * CDROM * Internet ------------------------------ Subject: Bass Taste, then my segue into babbledom From: Marc_Dupuis @ MADISONUSA.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM Date: 02 Jan 97 15:21:10 EST Further to my efforts to catch up on email... > Subject: Various and looong > From: Nigel.Collier @ ncl.ac.uk (Nigel Collier) > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:04:30 +0000 > > If I had a grumble, the bass playing of Wooten, Miller and Caron is a > little TOO tight and lacks the 'human' touch of Saint Mark of King I know what you mean. For example, I know there are Clarke fans here, but his playing almost always leaves me cold. (Sort of like what DiMeola does with a guitar, or Weckl with drums). It is so... surgical, sterile. Technically Brilliant, but... I like players that can show some emotion. That's one of the things that is great about King. I really likes Percy Jones because of his quirky overtone bends, and even Jaco can stomp, but Stanley's best stuff was RTF, IMHO. (Although I never heard the stuff with Copeland, anybody willing to make me a tape if I send a blank and postage?). > Subject: PG / drums / 4 > From: mm95 @ worldonline.nl (Mighty Maomoondog) > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 18:04:06 GMT > >> I bought Peter Gabriel's Us CD (Steam, Digging in the Dirt) specifically >> for Tony Levin's bass playing. He really adds something to the songs on >> that album. > Great album! If you like TL's playing and PG, be sure to check out 'Secret > World Live'. Brilliant... that's the only word that comes to mind. > (Especially 'Red Rain' and 'Steam' of course.) Glad to see you guys recognize PG and TL, is this a team from hell or what? Throw Manu Katche in there and you just may soil your armor (nod to Monty Python). Speaking of Manu, did you ever listen to Robbie Robertson's first album (the one with "Hell's Half Acre")? One of favorite albums of all time. Manu is one tasteful mother. > 1) Switching over to other instruments, the more I listen to Phil > Gould's playing, the more recognition I feel he deserves (I mean Stewart > Copeland type recognition). Someone mentioned a couple of weeks ago his > style of playing on the hi-hat to accent the groove. It's a perfect > compliment to Mark's style (a little busy, but you'll hear no complaints > from me). IMO Gary Husband's best work with the group was also his most > understated (read that: most Phil Gould-like) a la Silence, With a Little > Love, etc. > You've got a point there, but I also like the real Gary-like stuff like >'Her Big Day' and 'If You Were Mine'. Oh, and let's not forget MAN! Three of my favorite GH offerings! I love that complete stop at the end of IYWM, followed by those staccato snare rips; makes my nipples hard! (sorry...) MAN - I love how he continuosly changes his phrasing in this, and again, his fills are quite different than just about anybody else would've approached this, totally flips this thing around, kind of nice how it parallels the lyrical intent. Am I stretching here? ;) -Marc ------------------------------ Subject: (Digest) Love in a Peaceful World From: ByrdLvl42 @ aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:52:26 -0500 (In regards to recent posts about the content and quality of this digest:) Glad to see there's a bit of passion left in a fanclub whose band has long since broken up. (Please forgive the length of this post. These are some heartfelt notions that I must air in public. Although I know this topic is moot at this point, please endulge me, none the less.) Hi Ho, Byrdman the Grog here with some insight on our recent turmoil: The events and posts of recent days has made me ponder my reasons for subscribing to this group, and the function of a "Web Community." If you will undulge me for a bit, I'll try to remain as brief as possible. When I first found this page in the web, I got that usual feeling of euphoria when I find another link to my favorite band. The ground rules to post seemed simple: No advertisements, and keep it somewhat (even vaguely) related to Level 42. All I cared about was that now I had a line to my Isle of Wight boys and the people who love them. At this point I must thank Mikey42, who was very helpful, even on his sick bed, when I called regarding the upcoming Level Fest. Life was good for a bit. I heard great news about my band, at a time when all seemed dark (the breakup). You see, I'm stuck here on the desolate mountain paradise that is Denver, CO, and other than the occasional tidbit here and there, I am blacked out to any news or airplay of Level 42. If it wasn't for those magnificent little planes from your magnificent little kingdom of England, I'd never hear any new material (relatively). I met new friends, and had a laugh or two with my artifical cyber family (And we all have our Daddy's eyes...). Then Joe came (You came from out of nowhere yesterday/Well you blew my cool but thats o.k...), and apparently shook this digest to its core. And like a large family scolding a wayward child, the subscribers responded. Then, like a wayward child, Joe interjected his rebellion even more firmly, with great fear and trembling, and was soundly spanked. I looked with amazement at the cause and effect and frowned. Poor Joe. On the one hand, I can fully admire what you tried to state. Sure, we get off topic on occasion, and in a perfect world we might only want to post exclusively L42 related news. I would have no qualms about that in the least. The volume of news I get now is more than I can hope for. (By the way: Eric, you run a damn tight ship here, mate!) But on the other hand, this is stated to be a digest where people can meet who have a common thread: a love and admiration of Level 42. Along these lines if a fan of L42 also notes that he loves Thomas Dolby (an artist I really didn't appreciate until I subscribed to this digest), in the words of Tim Allen "More Power!" If, along these L42 lines, a subscriber mentions that he has this or that wrong in his life, if it be love, fire or war, and he needs a global community shoulder to cry on, here you go mate, cry your eyes out. (Ok, enough with the bread, here comes the meat...) My point is, like it or not, this digest represents a community of Level 42 fans. Their hopes and dreams, ambitions, rules, customs, and conflicts all display on these electronic sheets of paper daily with the same fury and presense as a medieval town square ("Perfected in silence, a physical presense"). Joe may have been brash, but the bottom line is, as a purist, he may be right. Maybe we do spend a lot of time talking Simply Red instead of L42, or King's X in lieu of Mark King's Castle. Perhaps, Loz may tease a bit about this piece of info or that (I really don't know, and frankly don't care either way. I know I have no inside line to the Band. I've never even seen a concert!). Maybe, even I drone on to long when we could be asking crucial questions like "How many times does Mark scare the couples in the SAY video?" Its all cobblers. The reason you post daily, or read the listings, isn't just because you love L42. But also because you love the community associated with this digest, and family of fans. I could probally find all this news and insight about the band on my own, but a hobby is allways more fun when shared with friends. And its great to know I have friends who love L42 in England, Europe, Asia, Oklahoma, Texsas, Bora Bora, the Klingon homeworld, etc. Sometimes, we split; sometimes we rally; sometimes we are straight to the point, and sometimes (ok, like now) we ramble. Somedays all I can think about is L42, but most days I got other things on my mind. And suspect so do you. All and all, I would not change a thing about this digest. Even Joe. Every family has a black sheep (I'm Black, so in my family I'm the White Sheep), and in ours, maybe Joe is ours. I don't care to speculate. The important thing is in the real world, as well as our little computerize hamlet, we all don't constantly think about those things that make us a community, and don't allways expess it either. In peaceful world world, we all accept that. In any event, let us all realize that we are some of the greatest fans in the world. We can revive a dead band (or at least keep a comatose band breathing till it wakes again) and bring fire to a flame that dwindles. And if Joe craves nothing but pure info on this great band, without interuption or distraction, I say at least you have to admire his zeal, and none can question his fantanicism. Good show, Joe!! If Loz wants to wear his heart on his sleeve and tell the world what bothers him, I envy him; such emotional confidence and candor is rare. You sound like a good man (in a storm! :-) ), hope to meet you at OK this June. And everyone else, to quote Bill & Ted "Be excellent to each other". You all are my "Family of Five", or more exactly, my family of 465, and good or bad, agree or disagree, plain ol' L42 or Loz's Love Line, I like this digest just fine. And that includes Loz, Joe, Eric, Mikey, Veronica, Jason, Nigel, Odo, Quark, Worf (oops, sorry, wrong digest...). Anyway in closing (finally) let me give you a quote to think upon: "I grew with a small town mentality Well, its a universal frame of mind. I was trying to make some changes but I couldn't see (Oh, why are we so blind...) Couldn't see above the bottom line." -Love in a Peaceful World I'm sure we are all familar with the song, but those who have been fuming in the past couple of days, please listen to it again. I think it might help you understand this "Cyber" community a tad better. Well, I gotta go stick my typing fingers in ice water TCOY, Byrdman ByrdLvl42 @ aol.com ------------------------------ Subject: A new member From: "Sariane E. Leigh" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:55:00 -0500 (EST) Hello everyone, Sari here from D.C., I must be the only person here under 21 who digs Level 42. I think I was born into the wrong decade because I missed out on all the level madnesss. I haven't been able to find all their albums. Please e-mail me, if you can help me find their albums, books, posters or other level based items. ------------------------------ Subject: German From: N Collier Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:03:50 +0000 > 4) While I'm on it, how many languages does Mike speak? On "White Funky" > I've heard him speak German. I'm impressed You're easily impressed. Saying "Meine Damen und Herren" a couple of times doesn't exactly make Mike C3P0, I could pick up more German than that watching 'adult' movies. Loz - I think people accept that your input is plain speaking rather than boasting. Suggesting being in the top 20 L42 fans in the UK is, I'm sure, intended as a basic observation, not a boast. Like I said, "he who never did anything wrong, never did anything!" Oh yeah, we need some more of those Level 42 VoiceTyped lyrics too... "I've been making moves in jeans" ------------------------------ Subject: The *Last* word on Joe From: Elson Trinidad Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:01:41 -0800 Okay, my apologies to Eric, but it's something I *must* say this about the most 'popular' member of the L42 digest... Obviously, people who behave that way on the Internet, especially in a forum where conflict and flames are not very commonplace, has some personal problems that he needs to take care of and that are probably none of our business. Anyway, I'll finish this topic once and for all with this quote from a song by Mike Lindup: "Where can hope be found? Not in a man who believes that others are less than himself...." Elson -30- ======================================== Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA elson @ westworld.com * http://www.westworld.com/~elson ======================================= ------------------------------ Subject: introduction message From: Jwall6653 @ aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:09:13 -0500 Hello, Well it seems that I joined the digest at a time of crisis (judging by the first digest I received today 1/2/97). I am 33 years old and a musician living in Columbus, Ohio. I became a fan of Level 42 in 1985 or 86 when I heard " Something About You" for the first time. Since then it has been tough to keep up with the band because of the lack of press and radio time they get in this part of the country. I just got online about four weeks ago and I was not even aware at the time that "Forever Now" even existed. The only way I found out about "Guaranteed" was by reading Mark's interview in Guitar Player or Bass Player, I can't remember now which one it was. Since then I was able to locate a copy of "Forever Now" at a local Record Store and I have really enjoyed listening to something new. I must also say that the Level 42 section at this particular store was sorely lacking (3 cds). I have run into dead ends trying to locate a domestic copy of "Live at Wembley", all the outlets here are claiming that it can only be obtained as an import and from what I have read that is not true. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. The information I obtained on the home page was bittersweet. Finding out about "Forever Now" was great news, but at the same time I was very dissapointed that the band was no more. I hope to get some new information via this forum and I look forward to future digests. By the way I have been a working musician for 15 years and I am a drummer and bass player. If anyone is a subscriber in the area let me know where to find you.. Happy New Year!! John Wallace ------------------------------ Subject: San Francisco Levelheads?? From: RBnDk @ aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:32:43 -0500 Hello to all fellow 42 fans! I have been reading this digest for quite some time and have finally mustered up enough courage to post away.. So, please, bear with me!! I have been a fan of Level 42 since 1986 (yes, I must admit 'Something About You' was the clicher).. even since then I have been unable to listen to much else..Unfortunately for me, I was never quite lucky enough to see them in concert... But.. I have all the videos(except for Guaranteed Live which I will give my left arm for) and fantasize that I am there with the crowd!! But, the real reason I am posting is because I am dying to meet fans here in the San Francisco Bay Area who love the boys as much as I do!! Please feel free to e-mail at RBnDk @ aol.com and I will be more than happy to speak to each and everyone of you... "So many people Suffer in Silence Because they're afraid.. Love will never come their way..." ---------level best-------- Kara T. P.S. Regarding the recent postings about Mike Lindup's singing... I happen to find his songs amongst my fave Level 42 songs.. 98-) ------------------------------ Subject: Hmmmm .. From: "Mark Hughes" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:58:36 -0000 Well .. well .. well !! I have to be really honest with you and say that over the Christmas period I didn't really take a lot of notice of the digest (even though it was picked up and displayed by Internet Explorer 3 - grin .. oops, off topic !!) What a difference a posting makes !! Joe certainly woke things up !! I have never seen the digest take off as much as it did recently !! For my 42 cents worth I can quite impressed the amount of interest that Joe has brought out in people !! Thank the Lord for free speech !! Notes : 1. Thees WASN'T tooped using Vuce Recognition Sopftware 2. I will continue to support anyone who supports Level 42, whatever their view. 3. I am thinking of doing a free homepage of Level 42 things for sale / swap .. good idea or not ? 4. HAPPY NEW YEAR !! 5. Could LOADS of people post details of which CD's have been burned and how to get them ?? Mark Hughes To Infinity and Beyond .. ------------------------------ Subject: The Early Tapes From: Anne Painter Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:17:04 -0500 I finally got a copy of the Early Tapes. The CD is quite good. The sound quality for the period is superb. I'm glad I own it (better late than never). Can a copy of AYGB be gotten from someone here on the digest? I'm interested in hearing those "B" sides! Let's get on with the new year, Shall We!! Keith P.S. Winston, You sure came through!! ------------------------------ Subject: CD Capacity From: Jeff Grous Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:33:45 -0800 Heyas everyone! Happy 1997!! Anthony writes: > A CD is "supposed" to hold 660 megs or 76 minutes of music, but > Forever Now is 78:01..... any explanations on that? Sure, I can explain that. But it takes a bit of background to do it... When the audio disc was first envisioned, Philips wanted to make it a 12" disc, just like the laserdisc that was already in production. But Mr. Morita at Sony had a bit of a different vision. He was in love with the idea of a car CD player and a portable "Walkman" type player, and also wanted a medium that would play for 74 minutes on one side (the length of a Herbert von Karajan performance of Beethoven's 9th). Given those constraints, and the fact that the wavelength of the IR laser diodes which were going to be used for the optics (visible red laser diodes did not yet exist, and gas lasers were obviously not acceptable) had a fixed resolution limit (plus one other limit, explained below), the Red Book gurus came up with the 5" size we all know and love. The 5" disc was originally spec'd to play at one of two rotational speeds, called CLV-1 and CLV-2. CLV-1 runs at 1.2m/sec, and offers a "Red Book" maximum playing time of 74 minutes, 33 seconds. CLV-2 spins the disc at 1.4m/sec, and offers a 60 minute playing time. The CLV-2 speed was used most of the time for earlier CD releases for several reasons. One was that the tolerances are much looser, and early players needed all the help they could get! Another was that manufacturing wasn't all that great yet- the CD makers were having trouble with something called "splay," which is a term used to describe the inaccuracies of the focus of the cutting laser used to burn a master. Because of splay, one couldn't count on getting the theoretical maximum resolution out of a given wavelength of light- you had to derate things a bit. Another manufacturing problem was that it was very difficult to make CDs that were "good" all the way out to the outer edges, and making 74-minute CDs was a difficult proposition, not to mention that early players with their kludgy optics and hair-trigger servos wouldn't reliably play the outer edges of CDs...! Plus, the Red Book standards have absolute tolerances regarding track pitch, pit size and length, etc., that were never to be violated. So 74 minutes, 33 seconds was all we were ever supposed to get. Well, players got better, splay was mostly tamed, and fabrication became a no-brainer, so the CD makers decided to push the envelope a bit. They make "extended length" CDs (which completely violate Red Book standards!) by reducing the distance between the tracks (actually, there is just one track, a long continuous spiral, just like a record groove), and fudging pit length and pitch, to get more pits (and therefore, more data) onto the CD and increase playback time. This is not a free lunch though. Many early players (which have no doubt all broken by now, so it's no big deal [except I do have a friend whose Sony CDP-101 [the very first!] still runs!]) either refuse to play these discs at all or get wiggy near the end. And 78 minutes is no big deal, btw- I've seen 80-minute discs. Anyway, that's how your Forever Now CD clocks in at 78 minutes... I've got gobs and gobs of CD trivia- sorry to run on like this. But I have an involved history- sold the first shipments of CDP-101's to hit the US (owned one, too!), and even had a car-CD player long before Sony introduced the first in-dash player- had my CDP-101 on the passenger seat, running on an inverter, patched into the car-fi system...hee hee! Yes, it skipped on big bumps... I also did the first FM broadcast of a CD source anywhere in Orange County, CA, back in early 1983. Here's another bit of triva- CD's are spec'd to be either single-sided or double-sided (betcha didn't know that!). But where would they print the lable on the double-sided ones? "America was calling me, you said I was shoes..." (HA!! LOZ!!!! I laughed SO hard at this...!) -Jeff ------------------------------ Subject: Billy's Gone versions From: Jeff Grous Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:47:51 -0800 Heya! Shuf writes: > **Billy's Gone (RCA Version--the added lyrics are nice, but the RCA > product is more finished) I'm confused- the two versions I've heard are the RCA version, which opens with the three-note piano part, and the Resurgence version, which is a totally different take. To me, the RCA version absolutely sounds like a demo (oddly, I was commenting about this tho someone at work yesterday, before I read your post!), up to and including the sonics. I think the Resurgence version sounds far more polished- it suffers from none of the phrasing awkwardness that plauges the RCA version, the whole song flows more smoothly, the mix is more appropriate to the track, and it's just plain more evolved sounding. Did you mix up what you typed, or do you really like the RCA version better? I'm curious! "Would you like to see a world, where no one ever hurts..." -Jeff