From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V97 #181 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 97 : Issue 181 498 subscribers Today's topics: DOLBY NR - PAH!! 7250 Dolby Dolby Dolby elson trinidad Dolby litigation McConnell AFB Swing Out Live Marcus Bone Marcus Miller, Mark Mclaughlin! Doug Ross We're taking over, Eric. Pat Flanagan DOLBY NOISE REDUCTION Jeff Grous IT'S SEEMS TO BE OVER !!!! Mark is giving it up>> David Kidd Alphaville / Midge Ure cd Mighty Maomoondog mmmm Bop! Bruce_Conrad Vegas N Collier Change of style dreamer Re: Level42 Digest V97 #180 JazPhreek booty Crazylips ------------------------------ Subject: DOLBY NR - PAH!! From: "KAHAR, Kudsia (7250)" Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:21:40 +0800 Hey there non-dolby users... True true.....Dolby NR sucks. I simply reduce the treble level on my stereo than using Dolby. I only find it necessary when playing back tapes that I transferred from LPs (as I did with early Level stuff which I salvaged from Virgin Megastore in Paris many moons ago) as LPs always have high hissing sound when transferred to cassettes. Later. "so many years ago, heroes ruled the world..." kudsia_kahar @ astro.com.my ------------------------------ Subject: Dolby Dolby Dolby From: elson trinidad Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:31:09 -0700 Me, I always record tapes with Dolby ON and play them back with Dolby OFF. For some reason, they seem to sound better that way... Elson -30- =========================================== Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA elson @ westworld.com * http://www.westworld.com/~elson ========================================== ------------------------------ Subject: Dolby litigation From: "Bowman, Brian J. (McConnell AFB)" Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:27:46 -0500 To follow up on Paul Fucito's info about Thomas Dolby: I read somewhere (on Dolby's web page, maybe?) that Dolby's original name was something else, but his high school mates dubbed him "Dolby" because he knew so much about music and electronics or something. It sounded as if Paul was arguing Dolby was Thomas' original name -- I don't believe it actually was, and it was inspired by Dolby technology, although he obviously wasn't peddaling the same product. And, Dolby may have been pissed off with Dolby Laboratories, but his "Flat Earth" cassette in 1984 was one of the first tapes to ever have Dolby HX Pro noise reduction, a headphone enhancement of the original B. As for this Neil Peart debate: Peart, Gould ... two great drummers ... but there's no point of comparison between the two. It would also be like comparing Rush bassist Geddy Lee with Mark King -- it just doesn't work, even though both men are awesome with their craft. "I didn't come here to try and save you ... I don't want you to rescue me." Brian Bowman [his real (full) name is "Thomas Morgan Dolby Robertson". I also just noticed that his first album "The Golden Age of Wireless" has a few tracks (including "She Blinded Me With Science") co-produced by Tim Friese-Green of Talk Talk fame... don't know why I never noticed that before, but it's cool! -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Swing Out Live From: Marcus Bone Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:10:32 +0100 Swing Out Sister are supporting "Burt Bacharach"! at the royal albert hall tomorrow night (1st July) Box office number 0171 589 8212 Not you, not me, Only memory ------------------------------ Subject: Marcus Miller, Mark Mclaughlin! From: Doug Ross Organization: Shikoku Gakuin University Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:00:59 +0900 Hi everyone! First, in response to Paul's question about Marcus Miller's last two albums, let me say that I in no way meant to imply that they aren't worth getting--they are both great albums, just maybe not quite up to the standard that I have come to expect from Marcus. Marcus has said in interviews that he was striving for a more spontaneous, live sound on "Tales" (and obviously on the new live CD, too). But "The Sun Don't Lie" was painstakingly crafted in the studio over a period of three or four YEARS, and the difference really shows. The production, arranging, composition, sounds, and of course the playing on "The Sun Don't Lie" are just so amazing that, BY COMPARISON, the last two albums sound kind of thrown-together to me (though undeniably thrown-together by some really great musicians!). Bottom line: Marcus never makes bad music. Get the albums. OK. I hate to beat a dead horse anymore, but I believe this whole Stanley Clarke influence discussion got started when someone asked about what OTHER musicians have influenced Mark. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but in interviews Mark has mentioned John Mclaughlin as being more or less his all-time hero. Granted, Mclaughlin isn't a bass player, but that certainly hasn't stopped Sir King from liberally borrowing licks from the Mclaughlin vocabulary. In some ways, I think that JM has had a more blatant and lasting influence on Mark's playing than Stanley. Incidentally, as for other non-bassists, I've heard Mark mention Chick Corea and Miles Davis as having influenced him (though it's difficult for me to hear Miles in Mark's playing. Miles is so renowned for his brilliant minimalism, wheras I've always considered Mark to be the Master of OVERPLAYING!) CAN'T SLOW DOWN, got to do what I do... -Doug R. ------------------------------ Subject: We're taking over, Eric. From: Pat Flanagan Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:42:58 -0400 >[or, if some nut started a network-based application development company > called "Worldmachine Technologies Corporation", he could probably get > away with it... =) -Eric] Hmmm, sounds like a good idea... Let's all band together and form a company called Worldmachine Technologies Corporation, then we can put Eric out of business through endless litigation. > Do you think that performers, especially those who's sound you really > enjoy, should change their format to something that you may not > particularly like and would that make you less of a fan? While it may take some getting used to, and there may be some things you NEVER get used to, I always respect a band that moves in some sort of direction, rather than stagnating. >> It's is very clear that this is a L42 cover. The inlay shows that >> the song is written by : A. Gardner/M. Cantor/K. Gordon/R. Gould/W. >> Badarou/M. King As I mentioned earlier, the piano part of Leaving me now >> is used in this song. > >Is it an actual *cover*, or does it just use that sample? If it's a cover, >what song are they covering? > >(The writing credit could easily apply to just the sample.) It's a sample. A cover is a remake of a previously released song, while a sample is just taking a phrase from an old song and working it into a totally different new song. I know you know this, Lazlo, but just wanted to clear it up for anyone who didn't. Pat Flanagan Publishing & Design PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 email: pfpd @ pfpd.com website: http://www.pfpd.com TOTALMEDIA PUBLISHING: Print * Disk * Interactive * CDROM * Internet [Good one. Actually, I just saw an ad for the official "Pat Flanagan Cabbage Patch Doll" (R), so one of you has a good trademark infringement claim... better call your lawyer! -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: DOLBY NOISE REDUCTION From: Jeff Grous Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:33:43 -0700 Heya, all! WARNING: NON LEVEL 42 POST FOLLOWS! (Joe P. disclaimer) Okay, I've heard ya'll dissin' Dolby NR, and some corrections need to be put up here. Read on to discover why you _think_ Dolby doesn't work as advertised... Number one fact: A properly designed and aligned Dolby noise reduction system (be it A, B C, or S) operating with a correctly aligned and functioning tape system has VIRTUALLY NO EFFECT on the desired sound. What everybody forgets is that all forms of Dolby NR are encode/decode systems- I.E., you do something to the signal BEFORE it goes on tape, and then you do something else to the signal (equal and opposite) when you play it back. It's the encode/decode process that reduces the noise and leaves the desired signal essentially alone. The way Dolby B-type NR works (oversimplified for some clarity, and A,C and S are similar) is like this: In record, all signals above 5,000 hertz are boosted by a sliding amount, reaching a maximum of 10 dB at 10Khz. The amount of boost is determined by the high-frequency content of the signal to be recorded. If there's a lot of top, the NR circuit does little or nothing to the signal, because there's already enough energy in the signal to mask (or cover) the tape hiss upon playback, and less processing is always better than more. So, the encoded signal goes on tape, with the highs emphasized ABOVE NORMAL (important point, here). On playback, the NR system applies an equal and opposite equal- ization to the playback signal, and you get the recovered signal intact, with the fixed noise contributed by the tape system reduced by an amount of 5-10 dB. Where people get into trouble on this is that they forget that Dolby NR is a 2-step process. Do something to the signal before it goes on tape, do something to it when you take it off tape, remember? They're playing their tape, listening to it, flip the Dolby switch on, and yuck, all the highs go away. So everybody thinks Dolby stinks, because the _untrained_ human ear will usually pick the brighter sound (unless it's HORRENDOUSLY bright) as the "better" sounding one. If that listener had the original source for the recording playing along with the tape and could compare them side by side, (s)he'd find that the tape more closely correlated with the orignal with the switch ON, and that with the switch off, the material would be brighter than the original. Of course, most people don't have the original there (that's why they have the tape!) to do this with, so the comparison is never made, they listen to the abnormally bright recording, and Dolby NR gets the bad rap. Now, some things enter into the picture that cloud this. One thing is differing alignment between the record and playback machine. Suppose that person A gives person B a B-type encoded tape. Well, it's a good bet that the record deck is aligned slightly differently than the playback deck. The two things that screw a Dolby system up are: level differences and high-frequency differences between encode and decode. What I mean is this: if I put a signal on tape at 0 dB with the Dolby on, when I play it back the decoder is expecting that signal to come back at 0. If it doesn't, the decoder errs, or mistracks. Level differences are common between cassette decks. Another, bigger problem are the high frequencies. Something that comes into play is a term called AZIMUTH. This refers to the physical position of the heads relative to the tape. Heads are always supposed to be 90 degrees to the tape, but in practice rarely are. This doesn't pose a problem when you record and playback a misaligned tape on the same machine, but is a huge problem when you play it back on another machine. If head A is at -89 degrees, and head B is at +89 degrees, there's a huge azimuth difference between the two machines- and the highs are gonna suffer something fierce. This really screws up B-type NR, because proper decoding depends on the highs coming back at the right level. Remember I said that the amount of processing in the encode stage depends on the amount of highs in the source? Well, so does decode. If the highs come back wrong, the decoder will mistrack. Another problem is a peculiar effect that tape hiss has on your perception of the sound. It's a psycho-acoustic effect, an illusion if you will. Take two recordings that are identical in response and noise level. Play them back- people will say they sound the same, right? Right. Now, add some tape hiss to one recording- people will now say that the recording with the noise added has an emphasized high-end. Now, they acknowledge the added noise- but they'll swear the source is brighter, too. While the mechanism is unknown, your brain takes the tape noise, (which is uncorrelated) and somehow correlates some of it and turns it into "genuine" information. This works against noise- reduction schemes of all types. Everybody thinks the noisier tape has better top-end. If we could just get those highs AND get rid of the noise... A way to prove this whole thing to yourself is to get a hold of a 3-head cassette deck, or head over to someone's house who has one. If the deck can be aligned to whatever sample of tape you're gonna use, do it. Then make a recording with no noise reduction on. Switch from tape to source with the monitor switch on the _deck_. You'll hear how the recording sounds with noise. Get familiar with any minor differences between the tape and the source, this is important. Now, after listening with the monitor switch in the TAPE position for a bit, turn on the NR. You should hear (virtually) ONLY a change in tape hiss amount. The signal should be the same. Bear in mind that you're fighting the illusion of better highs when there's some hiss there. At this point, you should also be able to move the switch back to the SOURCE position and verify that the recording matches the source, with the NR on. This test will show you that NR works. Owners of two-head tape decks can make the same test, only simpler: Make a B-type recording of something, anything. Go back, and _sync up the source and the tape_, playing them side-by- side. Use the tape monitor switch on your receiver to compare source and playback. The spectral content of the recording should be resonably close to the original (unless your deck is badly misaligned or just plain crappy!) Now, turn off the NR switch and compare: You will find that the tape is BRIGHTER than the original. Voila. Dolby does indeed work, and a correctly aligned system works very well. I use it like this: All my tapes are encoded with B-type NR. For my own use on all my machines (which are all aligned identically), it is essentially transparent. I also encode all tapes I send to people. If the recipient's deck is correctly aligned, they get the right sound. If not, they can leave the NR off, and either listen to it that way, or they can go "halfway," simulating Dolby's effect by turning the highs on their system down just a bit. It's a good compromise. -Jeff "HiFi-Kid....speaks...ANALOG...!" ------------------------------ Subject: IT'S SEEMS TO BE OVER !!!! Mark is giving it up !!!! From: "David Kidd" Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:19:46 +0100 Well how's about this one Level Heads !!!!!! ******************************************* * MARK KING IS GIVING UP PLAYING THE BASS * ******************************************* I have just received a phone call this afternoon (30/6/97 @ 4.40pm GMT) from a mate who's friendly with the owner of the Bass Center in Wapping (London, England). He was phoning him to see if he had any new stuff come in and the guy said that Mark had just sold loads and loads of his gear (his Alembic, Status and JD Basses and loads of his amps and other bits) to the Bass Centre and that Mark said his reason for selling up was that he's had enough and he's GIVING UP THE BASS !!!!! Well I don't know about you guys (the Brits of course !!), but I'm going straight down to the Bass Center tomorrow !!!!! I can put my hand on my heart and say that my source of info IS reliable (being a Level head himself). THIS IS NO BULLSHIT. I can't believe this to be true, but it seems so. I really do hope that the Bass Centre have got it wrong....... Hey, maybe Mark's broke, as I heard his divorce from Pia set him back a few bob or two !!!! Is he gonna carry on racing or perhaps become a hermit in France like Phil Gould is currently ?....If anyone else knows anything, get digesting !!! So there you go chaps, this is the sort of news/topic the 'LEVEL 42' Digest SHOULD be about, not going on about other bloody bands and how good/shit they are, and thank f**k, hopefully no more shite about 'Wang (King) Chung'... Respect to one and all from the shack up on the hill !!! Dave K. Ilford Essex England P.S. My mate also mentioned that he'd contact Paul Crockford to see if he knows anything about this, so I'll let you know as soon as I do..... ------------------------------ Subject: Alphaville / Midge Ure cd From: Mighty Maomoondog Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:48:22 +0200 Hey gang - I don't have a lot of time so I'll make this short: I have a spare cd of Midge Ure called "If I Was: the very best of Midge Ure & Ultravox". Tracklisting: 1. if i was 2. no regrets 3. love's great adventure 4. dear god 5. cold, cold heart 6. vienna 7. call of the wild 8. after a fachion 9. dancing with tears in my eyes 10.all fall down 11. yellow pearl 12.fade to grey 13.reap the wild wind 14.answers to nothing 15.do they know it's christmas 16.that certain smile If anybody wants it, let me know. Secondly, I finally found that Alphaville cd-single... the title song, Wishfuk Thinking' is growing on me. It's kind of mainstream which is not so good, I guess, but not all bad either because now they can finally have a hit! The bonus track, Life is King, is excellent, though! And finally, WOW! I wish I could have been at the Vegas Levelfest. I can't wait till the International Levelfest! That will rule! OK kids, later all! The Mighty Maomoondog mm95 @ worldonline.nl [so does that imply that the record co. doesn't think there were any "best" tunes by Ultravox before Midge Ure joined? (they're correct, IMHO -- even "The Collection", another Ultravox best-of has no pre-Midge tracks) -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: mmmm Bop! From: Bruce_Conrad @ hphc.org Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:46:29 -0400 I want to be the first to congratulate Eric Hansen and his brothers on the success of their record :). Nice singing Eric!, although it's a little too overproduced sugar-pop for my taste. :> (not wanting to start another poppy off-topic note) I know a guy with his own little record label, - Fingerprint. I'll get the exact AOL webpage in a few days. Any more submissions for the Level42 Connection Collection? (original songs by digest members) [mr. rockapella?] email me at BHConrad @ AOL.Com for info. + add The Rolfer @ AOL to your buddy lists. (Hi Rolf!) Bruce Conrad, Software Control Analyst Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Quincy, MA www.HarvardPilgrim.Org [don't believe the hype! There are *LOADS* of us! I've been accused of being the bassist for Mannheim Steamroller, the pitcher of the Red Sox, and [most recently] the author of some HTML tutorial book. I suppose I "get around", but geez! -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Vegas From: N Collier Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:09:51 +0100 I've read the reports of the Vegas LevelFest with interest and envy in equal measure. They all seem to revolve around motels, all-you-can-eat restaurants, bars and casinos. Add some tequila and some hard drugs and you have 'Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas' by Hunter S. Thompson. If you couldn't make it to the Fest, read the book. Nigel "...friends all over the world, none in this country but all over the world" - Tony Hancock, The Radio Ham http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~nnac/ ------------------------------ Subject: Change of style From: dreamer @ ime.net Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:48:29 +0000 Randall wrote: > Do you think that performers, especially those who's sound you > really enjoy, should change their format to something that you may > not particularly like and would that make you less of a fan? It may make me a bit dissapointed and I may not buy it but I say let them do what they want. Unfortunantly you may end up wasting money in the process like I did. I like Saga's sound but one of their last albums (Generation 13) was WAY different from the usual. I hated it. Then there is Chicago who did this "big band" thing on their last album but it said "big band" something or other on the outside so I didn't buy it. At least it gave a hint to the contents. Anyone have it by the way? Yes changed their style a bit with their 90125 album and that's one of my all time favorites. I don't really like them otherwise. On the other hand, I like every Beatle and L42 album there is, regardless of the change in style. Would I be less of a fan for not buying something? There's two type of fans. Fans and "Fan"antics. You choose. : ) Take it easy, Rolf ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V97 #180 From: JazPhreek @ aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Before SATS came out, they had released the single of Heaven In My Hands. I rushed to Tower the day it was first available, expecting some really great Level 42 music. I was less than enthusiastic with what I heard, but since they were my favorite group, I gave the song the benefit of the doubt and listened to it again. Still, I felt the same, but after awhile I found myself humming along to the song, ultimately singing it repeatedly in my barracks room (much to the chagrin of my roommates). Finally, after much anticipation, I had the whole tape of SATS in hand (didn't have a CD player then). After listening to it in it's entirety, I was pleased with the effort of the band, but it came nowhere near the caliber of music I thought they were capable of. There were some choice cuts on that tape: Gresham Blues, Silence, Man, and Tracie were in my opinion the best songs. Overall though, that effort did not have the impact on me such as TPOA or SITL. Those were great albums! Mark had the slammin' bass licks, Phil was layin' down groove after groove. That was, I believe the foundation of their success. There weren't any groups from the UK that sounded that tight. Deodato was the next funkiest thing to L42. Even here in the states, there weren't many groups that could hang with them, save for the groups that had already established themselves i.e EW&F, Maze, et al. Level 42 were awesome! Man, I'd give anything to hear them play some of those songs again. That's what they needed to get back to because that's what attracted us to them in the beginning. I am and forever will be a 42er, but I feel those of us who may have gotten to see one show during the later stage of their careers, did not get to see them perform their best songs only the most popular ones from the most recent albums. I think that bands should continue to put out products that they are renowned for and improve on what got them there in the beginning. That's my perspective. Neither asleep or awake, losing control you start to shake as the day begins to break.... Paul ------------------------------ Subject: booty From: Crazylips @ aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:48:26 -0400 (EDT) OK....for reasons too lengthy to explain here, I have acquired a friend at Imago Records, who just gave me a little pile of very very nice presents: ---2 copies of a promotional-only Live At Wembley CD containing the 3 songs SAY, RITF, and LIL from that album ---An 8x11 1/2 " full-color glossy press kit info insert all about 42 and the album. ---6 card-stock 8x10 titled press kit photos of Mark and Mike from the Guranteed and FN eras plus one autographed photo of MK ( ! ) ---A cassette of the complete original Wembley concert recording and interview, including the tracks left off the album---WM, Tracie, HW, and a bass solo. My question is: Do we (the digest members) already have access to the 4 tracks removed from the concert CD (i.o.w---have I not been paying attention to digest discussions? It's highly possible...) ---Jeff Thacher