From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V97 #141 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 97 : Issue 141 501 subscribers Today's topics: RE Paul Crockford Bill Miller more Judas Silver Dave Brown CD burning news dirk.vael A buncha stuff, no flames Pat Flanagan Glad to be back Dave Mock Some people just don't get it... Rob Kadel Early Tapes vocals Steve Allert Standing in the Sun Bruce_Conrad Judas Silver J Shuford Sigue Sigue Sputnik Lazlo Nibble Mr Tweedale and Bell make up. Jason Bell Alembic logo. DonZipf Martin Page, Judas Priest, er, I mean SILVER elson trinidad FY (grammatical) I Glen Hambly Hey, whats up?? Trillian Martin Page--Level 42: six degrees of separatio>> Richard J. Reddick A lot of silver Randall L Collins MARK KING LOOKING HIS BEST... 7250 leonardo hernandez Digest 140 Terry Primus ------------------------------ Subject: RE Paul Crockford From: bmiller @ abbeywood.com (Bill Miller) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:44:47 +0100 (BST) Levelheads I have just spoken (11:45am British Time Wednesday) to Paul Crockford himself. and with regard mainly to the questions Mike was asking Paul tells me that Mark and Mike aren't doing anything at the moment, he says he is still their manager. As far as reissues go he said there were a couple of things being juggled in the air and all he would say was that they are planning to release (FANFARE) their last concert at the Royal Albert Hall but apparently the master tape is damaged and is being repaired as we speak!!!! Paul was courteous and polite and he hasn't unfortunately got EMAIL yet!!! If anybody else wants any more information from Paul let me know Bill Miller BILLY'S GONE [gee, everything I've heard about Crockford on the Digest (over the past few years) has indicated that he's a helpful and pretty nice guy. Almost makes me sorry for railing on him during the '93 - '95 Digest years... although then again, maybe I just don't understand the music biz, and (like Tori) he's just a "big phoney"... -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: more Judas Silver From: Dave Brown Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 06:11:57 -0500 This song is one of my favorites and holds a ton of meaning to me. It's also very different than anything else of theirs I've heard. I agree with some of the interpretations. The writers father was a poor and religious man "whistling Rock of Ages (very old religious song) with his lunchbox at his side", but happy and had many friends. When he died, the writer vowed to go down another path and forsake his father's ways and values and just be successful. So, trying to make it in the world, he had to walk on other people (seems the most common way to be successful.) That's where the boots come in and the forsaking of his father's values (I believe mostly faith in God) is where the reference to the silver Judas got for betraying Jesus. The boots shine as a reference to being successful in the world. The field is Potter's field which is where they buried Judas after he hung himself. So I think the "rain falls on the field of bones and roses" refers to the fact that out of death springs life and even though his father is dead, his memory and all he believed in can still influence his son to turn back to the things that have meaning in life like love and faith. David A. Brown dBr Engineering for Lucent Technologies brown @ ias.inh.lucent.com USA 317-862-4888 voice and fax USA 317-862-1000 residence ------------------------------ Subject: CD burning news From: "dirk.vael" Date: 21 May 97 14:07:02 CD burners or people interested in duplicating CDs, check: http://members.aol.com/HTLI/ADSI.html (sorry, off topic!) And what about this question: what do you think is the WORST album cover L42 ever had ? Early Tapes (not Japanese release) is certainly numba one here!!, but Forever Now (RCA) or True Colors are def runner ups too! (The best cover to me is World Machine) and anyone know 'Changes' by the RAM Project ? Not really the same as Mike's song... Dirk ------------------------------ Subject: A buncha stuff, no flames From: Pat Flanagan Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:18:02 -0400 > Firstly Randall, you mentioned the lyrics to "My Fathers Shoes" you will > find that if you listen closely Mark actually sings: "So take these boots > that shine like Judas' silver" A reference that Jewish people like their > silver and that it is always clean and shiny!!! They are just using the > words to describe how shiny the boots actually were!! Sorry, Bill, I disagree with the "Jewish" part, that might offend some people. Actually, here goes my minute (pronounced "my-noot" as in "my noot really hurts right now") interpretation of that line. Judas betrayed Jesus for 20 (30?) pieces of silver. Thus was born the phrase "Judas' silver" to mean "bad or tainted money." So, in the song, his shiny boots remind him that his money came from bad actions. As for the betrayal aspect of Judas, he betrayed his good upbringing through his actions, which makes him long to "walk in his father's shoes," to be a bit more like dad. > Indeed! 'Heathrow' is a tad tricky at first, as it is in F. I remember When I used to play bass, I learned Heathrow from some sheet music that had it in E. Quite easy to play it that way, but it never sounded quite right. I finally figured out it was in F. I didn't seem to have any problems playing it that way, either, just move your hand up the neck. > viewing the video. BTW, does any other female here think that that's the > best Mark EVER looked?! Well, I'm a guy, but I'm secure enough in my sexuality to admit when a guy is good-looking. Mark looks pretty good in that video, thank GOD he got rid of that Hitler haircut he wore for so long. > Hey, no one besides Winston in private email commented on what they > thought the meaning of the lyrics in "Model Friend" mean. Speak up! In a nutshell, I always read the song as "you can be friends/lovers/whatever with me if you want, but be forewarned that I might hurt you, because I'm not perfect." > On the subject of Tom Lord-Alge, he is credited with either mixing or > producing The Wallflowers' latest, Bringing Down The Horse. I quite > enjoy it, any other fans? Good album. You'll find Tom Lord-Alge credited on literally dozens and dozens of albums, he's a busy guy! > *All right, I'm sorry... with the speaker thing, has anyone tried it > (without destroying yer speakers, I hope) and discovered any "nuggets" > that our boys hid in the stereo mix? Yes, mostly in True Colors, World Machine, and primarily in Forever Now. The speaker trick seems to work best with albums that were creatively mixed. Pat Flanagan Publishing & Design PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 email: pfpd @ pfpd.com website: http://www.pfpd.com TOTALMEDIA PUBLISHING: Print * Disk * Interactive * CDROM * Internet ------------------------------ Subject: Glad to be back From: Dave Mock Organization: Long Island Community Newspapers Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:37:24 -0400 Hey, Micro-Kids: I've been out of the loop for nearly two weeks while changing jobs. I'm now working as regional managing editor for a group of newspapers in the NYC burbs -- Anton Publications, where I worked from '83 to '93. Working at a country radio station for a non-country boy was a bit much. Glad to know the regular reporters -- Winston, Lolita, Billy et al - are still at it. Not surprised to read the non-L42 postings -- not brief tangents (which we all have) but the magnum opuses -- are still continuing. Hope we're all more careful -- elsewhise subject matter moves away from "Standing In the Light" into "The Guiding Light." :) Back to our boys: Need to track down a CD or cassette of "Level 42," "The Pursuit Of Accidents", "True Colours" and/or the UK "World Machine" in NYC or LI and need suggestions. WinMan, Lolita et al, please help me out. By the way, I think "Standing In the Light" sounds fine, as opposed to other correspondents who think its recording quality is below that of other L42 albums. The set (which Rolling Stone's album guide really liked) seems like a transition album, with L42 moving from instrumentals to getting its groove on. King's singing style, not just Dunn/White's recording style, seems more precise and direct here. (That includes "Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind," which was produced by Paul O'Duffy, whom I think is also the svengali behind Swing Out Sister.) By "True Colours," they took it one step further -- the crisp cymbals, the gorgeous keys, the individualistic basslines, thanks to the groundwork laid in the previous album. They were more "pop" than groove on "World Machine" -- at least the US version -- but it's still a shining pop achievement. TCOY. Dave P.S. "Hours By the Window" on "True Colours" is one of the two most mournful songs L42 ever put out, the other being "It's Over." "A Kinder Eye" gets a close third. ------------------------------ Subject: Some people just don't get it... From: Rob Kadel Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:09:26 +0100 Well, at least Thomas has got some measure of sarcasm (though no sense of humor). But in the spirit of immaturity, I have to say this: I WAS SARCASTIC FIRST!!! (Insert, raspberries here.) > PEACE!!! > > Thomas ~:-{| Really? Didn't seem that way. -Rob P.S. Why are you ragging on Eric? All he does is run the list, and in fine fashion, too. P.P.S. You can't compare TBWYA with IMHO because unlike "To Be With You Again," "In My Humble Opinion" is not a Level 42 song. Have a nice day! [FYI, Thomas unsubscribed this morning... my impression was that (for now) he wasn't comfortable with the atmosphere here. The last thing I want to do is make the Digest into a closed/restricted forum, so I amiably suggested that he resubscribe (or at least check back with the archives) when he had some time in the future. -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Early Tapes vocals From: "Steve Allert" Organization: MCI Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 09:41:32 -0500 In response to Dirkies provoking: I too agree that they should've omitted the vocals on all songs on the ET disc, not for a lack of lyrical content, but because they seem to be mixed so poorly. I especially dislike the very dated echo effect "they" put to Mark's vocals on 'Paradise' and 'LML'. Also, I don't like the "sound" of the keyboards on this disc. They're just so cheesy. Is this, again, attributed to the mixing or was Mike using a different setup (I don't know the technical aspects)? I've always dug this disc for the music...some of the boys best fusion jams. I would place it a close second to L42 if it weren't for these two factors. Perhaps somebody, someday will rework this disc and bring it into the proper light. Oh, and ditto on LAW89 disc! Steve A [yeah, and it's too bad that the artwork for the album makes it look like this was some garage-band project (no, DirK!! not THAT kind of garage...) -Eric] ------------------------------ Subject: Standing in the Sun From: Bruce_Conrad @ hphc.org Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:16:35 -0400 Can't we all just get along? :) I think some of you were a little harsh on Tom, the newbie, so he flamed a bunch of you. But,as we all know, it's not a good idea to introduce yourself by complaining about what is/isn't discussed, but I digress... I haven't checked it out yet, but there is a site that you may find interesting: www.dominicmiller.com . i hear it has samples from his solo album? + i think he's selling Trace Elliot stuff. I will be travelling to merry old England again (well, stopping at 'Heathrow' for a few hours) in August, on my way to Hungary. more info later. still not sure about Vegas yet. talk to you later, I'm on my way to Pat Flanagan's Bar & Grill. Bruce_Conrad @ HPHC.Org Software Control Analyst Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Quincy, MA WWW.HarvardPilgrim.Org ------------------------------ Subject: Judas Silver From: J Shuford Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:36:20 -0700 (PDT) So take these boots that shine like judas silver: Well, I think Lolita was on the money (so to speak) with the interpretation and reference. I wouldn't even bother posting again were it not for Bill Miller's interpretation that "Jews always like their silver shiny" or something like that. Go back and read yesterday's digest. Bill, I'm not trying to flame you. I don't think you meant it how it sounds. But written out like that it sounds pretty terrible, either as coming from you or as coming from George Green & Level 42. "Judas Silver" refers to the pieces of silver Judas received from the Romans for betraying Jesus. He was seduced by the allure and shine of money, opting for the lower things rather than the higher. Jumping back to 42, the boots that shine like "judas silver" are material objects that symbolize his betrayal of higher values in favor of lower ones. It's a biblical reference, but it's got not a damn thing to do with being Jewish. Shuf John Shuford Department of Philosophy University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1295 (541) 346-1054 shuf @ darkwing.uoregon.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Sigue Sigue Sputnik From: "Lazlo Nibble" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:06:26 -0600 (MDT) > Sigue Sigue Sputnik? LIVE?!? What'd they do, > stand around and press buttons? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Kinda like Kraftwerk > live...HA! Ho ho and ha ha... HEE! What a crackup that musta been! I'm sorry, I don't get it -- why is this "funny"? Is this another one of those "you're not a real musician unless..." things? -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo @ swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists ------------------------------ Subject: Mr Tweedale and Bell make up. From: Jason Bell Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:14:25 +0100 (BST) Dear all. Many thanks to Mark for apologising, I do feel that he had nothing to be sorry about, but he did post me privately on the subject. As he had apologised publicly, I shall say that he had nothing to worry about, publicly. Life is too short to worry about little things like bass playing. Anyway Mark, you'll have to come round again at some stage, we'll have a good hearted bass duel !!!!!!! Also, on the thread of basslines to learn, give these a bash. Level42 - "42". That's a bugger. Mark's soundcheck in 'Fait Acompli'. Some nice playing there. Also. 'Don't Give Up' by Peter Gabriel. One for the Tlev fans out there. I could give you King Crimson basslines all night, but I'll leave you with 'Larks Tongues in Aspic Part 2'. That sorts the men from the boys. One for the Stick players in 'Sartori In Tangiers', how about that Ben ? Regards Jason Bell Email : xdr44 @ dial.pipex.com OR Jason.Bell @ PEmail.net WWW : http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/xdr44/ Chapman Stick Player and a Member Of The HTML Writers Guild ------------------------------ Subject: Alembic logo. From: DonZipf @ aol.com Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Greetings, Levelheads! I e-mailed Mica Wickersham at Alembic the other day about the history of the Alembic logo. I just posted a couple different versions of the logo on the FTP site for the CD-ROM project, and got to thinking about the meaning of what is arguably the industry's most interesting & complex corporate icon. Alembic.com now includes a very interesting article, "The History of Alembic" by CEO Susan Wickersham, and I recommend that everyone go there and read it - even if you're not a bass player! The article didn't include the meaning of the logo, however, so I asked Mica. Here is her reply, in part: > Bob Thomas (of Grateful Dead cover art fame) painted the original logo > which hangs in our lobby currently. The main symbols are the cloud > (universe), the rays (energy), the hand (mankind), the prism (focus), the > dragon (wisdom), the circle (infinity), the alembic (purity). Man takes > everything available to him in the universe and in his infinite search for > wisdom, uses his engery and effort and focuses them into the alembic to > purify and create his finished product. That's the short version to tide > you over until the page is up. Dirk... > Live At Wembley 1989 CD: listening with headphones to it this weekend > forced me to make the same remark as all previous times: THE SOUND > QUALITY SUCKS, IT SUCKS! If you listen to APP (like I did for Lars-Ove > :), or Dire Staits Live, then you know what excellent live recordings > can be. Luckily my bro's boombox features live effex, which makes LAW89 > almost as good in quality as APP. Any takers? Jesu Louisa, Dirk! LAW '89 was taken from a board mix for a live radio broadcast. It was never meant to be released as a CD! APP was multi-tracked and remixed - it should sound better. All things considered, I think LAW sounds pretty darn good. "...but it IS on the radio, thank you." Z. ------------------------------ Subject: Martin Page, Judas Priest, er, I mean SILVER From: elson trinidad Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:00:49 -0700 From: bmiller @ abbeywood.com (Bill Miller) > Firstly Randall, you mentioned the lyrics to "My Fathers Shoes" you will > find that if you listen closely Mark actually sings: "So take these boots > that shine like Judas' silver" A reference that Jewish people like their > silver and that it is always clean and shiny!!! T Whoa, hope we don't get any discussions regarding Anti-Semitism on this one. Any Jewish peopleindahouuusze? From: angelina rogero > Regarding Bonneville Mark's comments on Martin Page, Yes, I do find "In > the House of Stone and Light" to have a Level 42 feel, if not 'influence.' [...] > They just go together to me. For some reason, I'm remembering that > there is some connection between Martin and Level42. Or am I thinking > of some other band? Could be Mr. Mister. I see a lot of similarities with Mr. Mister. I even initially thought Martin Page was another "Page"...Connections? Let's see, British, singing bass players, Music Man Stingray basses... ('cept Mark only uses his in the studio) > Hey, no one besides Winston in private email commented on what they > thought the meaning of the lyrics in "Model Friend" mean. Speak up! Mark wrote that song for Vendela and Claudia Schiffer. Next question... > I think that "Judas silver" in "My Father's Shoes" has something to do > with betrayal. The speaker feels now that he has betrayed his father > by getting away from what he valued by being a being a banker instead > of a factory worker. Judas was the disciple who betrayed Jesus in the > story from the Bible. I'm not sure exactly what the silver stands for. Gee, you'd hope that his dad would be proud of his son for going on to a successful career. I thought it's the dream of all parents for their children to be more successful than themselves. Of course, we do learn in the song that the singer realizes that his material wealth pales in comparison to his fathers' wholesomeness. Papa don't take no mess. Elson -30- =========================================== Elson Trinidad Los Angeles, CA, USA elson @ westworld.com * http://www.westworld.com/~elson ========================================== ------------------------------ Subject: FY (grammatical) I From: HighwayHamster @ webtv.net (Glen Hambly) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:23:49 -0500 Thomas writes: > Well, most of you wouldn't have known that I was relatively new if I > hadn't of said so; Just a friendly correction, sir. I was surprised to come across such an obvious error from someone so quick to point out spelling and usage errors in others. "Hadn't OF said so"? What you mean to say is "hadn't HAVE said so" (or hadn't've if using the contraction). That's all. Let love in a peaceful world continue. :+) ------------------------------ Subject: Hey, whats up?? From: "Trillian" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:38:35 -0700 Hi to all, Its been a while since I've posted anything, but I think you know why..anyway, Lolita...My two cents worth on Mark..He's totally awesome in every single video, well, almost, short hair, long hair, purple hair..He is just downright GORGEOUS every way he comes....and WHERE did you get a hold of Guaranteed videos??Tower?Virgin? where where where???? :-) (Winston, were these the ones you were going to tape for me? And I haven't sent ya a video?) Now, I am going to put my two cents in on the religious thing and then that's all I'm going to say..this is just food for thought..to me it would seem that Mark, Mike, Boon, Phil, etc whomever writes the songs may have some metaphysical views on the world, now this in not anti-christian or anti-anything, in fact, metaphysics takes in all different types of religion..but does it really matter...I enjoy the music despite what religion they practice or what their political arena is..enough said.. And to all whom this fits, CHILL!!! I'm sure that the band would not appreciate all this, well, stuff going on..everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when speculation on different peoples private lives enter into it, leave off!!! Anyway, I hope I still have some friends left after I've said this. TCOY, Trillian ------------------------------ Subject: Martin Page--Level 42: six degrees of separation... From: "Richard J. Reddick" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:25:49 -0500 (CDT) Personally, I never took a shine to Martin Page, but I think the L42 connection is this: he worked closely with Cox and Drummie from Go West (co-wrote "King of Wishful Thinking," methinks). Of course, the Go West and L42 connections are mega: Al Murphy, Tom Lord-Alge, Annie McCaig... Oh yeah... I also heard a rumour from somebody's Nik Kershaw page that NK and MK were collaborating, on the down-low. I must admit I was kind of disappointed to hear that MK wanted to continue using the L42 moniker. If it's not at least Mark and Mike, it's not 42. Regrettably, it seems, most break ups are permanent affairs. ------------------------------ Subject: A lot of silver From: rcol @ ix.netcom.com (Randall L Collins) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:33:25 -0500 (CDT) I appreciate all of the responses I got about 'Judas Silver' (sounds like that could be a great name for a band). After reading the lyrics again, Judas' betrayal is apparent and the shiny boots that his dad had went he left for work makes sense, especially since "..that factory dust was on his shoes the afternoon he died". I suppose my reason for bringing up this subject is that some of this reminds me of my relationship with my dad. It was nothing like the song MFS but I can relate to Mark, especially in the song 'Running In The Family' (Am I the only one that spells out most L42 songs?). I admit to not really paying much attention to lyrics in a song but RITF and MFS reminds me of my old man. Love him to death but I see elements in these songs that really got me thinking about my relationship with him. A good, good man but probably did the best he could with what he had to deal with when I was a kid. Well, don't want to concern you with that. This says that Level 42 writes (or wrote) the most realistic, honest and heart-felt lyrics I ever read. I think their lyric writing is on par, if not a shade better, than their wonderful musicianship. But, when you read the lyrics to 'The Ape', well....even the L boys can have a bad day! :) Lolita: Interesting reference to a black Judas. I assume you are talking about Jesus Christ Superstar. Let's not go theeeerrrre! :) Thnaks again for everyone's comments. Right, then! Randall (TRUMPET FANFARE), the Defender of ATRAC! (I know you miss that!) :) "There's a kipper sticking out of your jumper". ------------------------------ Subject: MARK KING LOOKING HIS BEST... From: "KAHAR, Kudsia (7250)" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:47:02 +0800 ***THIS IS A NON-THEORY THANG******* Hey to Lolita!! Unfortunately I have not seen the MFS video, but I saw the man in TAL (shot in New Orleans) and I thought he looked pretty hot! But still......my schoolgirl crush (though I'm now in my 20's!) remains with Mike!! Except for that Afro phase - that's true - it was kinda dodgy. **Thanks to the kind soul who posted his conversation with Gary H. It was really nice to share. Still can't believe he hasn't heard FN!! "So many years ago, heroes ruled the world....." Kudsia. ------------------------------ Subject: From: leonardo hernandez Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:26:35 +0200 Hi lads i'm dude who's "running in the family" after level 42 t-shirts do anyone of you know where in the net i can find level 42 t-shirts. Please write in the internetaddess. leonardo. Peace global friends, and may the force be with you all Fade To Grey Once Leo You can´t stop "WE´RE SENDING YOU BACK TO THE FUTURE" PS. LEONARDO IS THE MAN( HE´S BEST ) spread the message of the Fade To Grey ------------------------------ Subject: Digest 140 From: Terry Primus Date: Thu, 22 May 97 10:41:00 PDT This is for the benefit of Mikep but will probably shed some light on the "imminent reissues". Earlier this year I spent an afternoon in the company of Loz.Amongst the obvious subject matter,a significant piece of information was imparted to me. Mark and Croxford had recently parted company,this was some time ago and I have kept quiet up until now because I would have expected the news to have surfaced by now.Since we have had no contact from Loz for some time now and since no amount of enquiring through the correct channels(Polydor) has resulted in any news on the reissues,I feel it only fair to pass on what I have known for a while now. "The truth is out there..." Terry P(Huddersfield,England)