From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V97 #130 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 97 : Issue 130 503 subscribers Today's topics: "ONE LOVE"??????? Pat Flanagan Re: Music Theory 101 Rob Kadel Re: Music Theory 799R Rob Kadel Level 42 and politics J Shuford Vinyl For Sale J Shuford Whiskey/Freedom A Go Go angelina rogero out-of-phase listening Richard J. Reddick Dom Miller/Al Murphy/Al Holdsworth/Jakko myster>> Richard J. Reddick Holy Grail, Holy Cow . . . matthew rice Found some "new" Level 42 CDs Nathaniel O. Wells religion 42/world peace songs DonZipf Theory 101 in the real world Randall L Collins ------------------------------ Subject: "ONE LOVE"??????? From: Pat Flanagan Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 09:53:00 -0400 >From: "Richard J. Reddick" >Song: Man, with ATGD, One Love, TSGD somewhere near the top. -------- I'm not familiar with this song!!!??!?!? Am I missing something? Please fill us in (I have a feeling I won't be the only one to notice this). Pat Flanagan Publishing & Design PO Box 281, Granger, IN 46530-0281 email: pfpd @ pfpd.com website: http://www.pfpd.com TOTALMEDIA PUBLISHING: Print * Disk * Interactive * CDROM * Internet ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Music Theory 101 From: Rob Kadel Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 12:17:00 -0400 (EDT) So a few people have been talking about the use (or not) of modulations in L42 songs, etc. etc. I myself am no expert on music (and would certainly defer to your knowledge, Randall), but with my limited amount of formal training, I thought I'd add one more comment. Is it me, or doesn't the band play a lot of songs in a particular mode, namely Mixolydian. (I think that's the right one, and NO, that's not the little guy who used to bother the Superfriends on Saturday mornings and wouldn't go away until they got him to say his name backwards.) :) As I recall, this is the mode that works like a major scale, except has a flat seventh (i.e., E - F - G# - A - B - C# - D - E). (Or, if you play all white notes on a piano from G to G.) This is used in a lot of their earlier stuff, particularly Love Games, Almost There, parts of Mr. Pink, Hot Water, so on, so forth. Does this sound familiar to anyone, or is it just me? -Rob ************************************************************************ Rob Kadel Department of Sociology Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 (404)727-7510 http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~rkadel/ ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Music Theory 799R From: Rob Kadel Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 12:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Okay, and after reading today's post, I see I must defer to Matthew's musical knowledge, too. But I still want my Mixolydian question addressed! ;-) (799R? Taking dissertation level directed research in music are we?) -Rob ************************************************************************ Rob Kadel Department of Sociology Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 (404)727-7510 http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~rkadel/ ------------------------------ Subject: Level 42 and politics From: J Shuford Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 09:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Once more unto the brink: I think it's a bit false to say that L42 didn't have any political leanings in their music. While not everything was directly political (commenting on political leaders), so very much had to do with social commentary. I for one always wished that L42 WOULD have been more political. I don't mean that they had to be in-yer-face about it. That was Phil & Boon's great gift--subtlety. But they went the love song/hit single route when Mark sorta seized control of the band, and I think their artistic integrity waned. Which is not to say that you can't right a love song with integrity--I think some of the stuff on Forever Now showed that. But it's a harder bit to not be cliched. As for political lyrics, I hate to say it but some of the most important music that was made in the last 40 years of this century was DEEPLY politically conscious and motivated. Musicians can do many things--one of them is to speak the truth, or to speak from their particular perspective. They have a rare opportunity to reach masses of people rhetorically in whatever way they choose. Even a simple heterosexual love song has masses of political content (in favor of the status quo). So I guess what I am saying is that I am actually a fan of artist's taking their position to speak as a position where they can make a difference in other's lives and in world affairs with some responsibility and reflection. Soap box mode off now. As for more politically-loaded L42 lyrics...I'd say go back and listen to just about the entirety of "True Colours." Shuf ------------------------------ Subject: Vinyl For Sale From: J Shuford Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) To All Collectors of Level-Related Artists: I was just cleaning out my tape and vinyl collections, and I've found a few things that I can part with: Go West--"Dancing on the Couch" (Vinyl): This is Alan Murphy's last album with Go West. Track listing (US pressing) is I Want to Hear It from You/Little Caesar/Masque of Love/From Baltimore to Paris/True Colours/The King is Dead/Chinese Whispers/Don't Look Down (the Sequel)/Crossfire/ Dangerous Midge Ure--"The Gift" (Vinyl): This features 3 guest tracks from Mark King (If I Was/Living in the Past/The Chieftain). Other tracks (US pressing) are When the Wind Blows/That Certain Smile/The Gift/Antilles/ Wastland/Edo/She Cried/The Gift (reprise) Living In A Box--"Living in a Box" (Vinyl): This group includes Richard Darbyshire (vocals, guitars, music & lyrics), who co-wrote the track Forever Now. Mixed by Tom Lord Alge. Track listing (US pressing) is Living in a Box/Love is the Art/So the Story Goes/From Beginning to End/Generate the Wave/Scales of Justice/Going for the Big One/Human Story/Can't Stop the Wheel/Living in a Box (reprise) Level 42--Lessons in Love (Cassette Maxi Single): Lessons in Love 12" remix/Lessons in Love 7" version/Lessons in Love dub mix/Freedom Someday 7" version Level 42--Leaving Me Now (Cassette Single): Leaving Me Now 7" version/Silence (live at Birmingham NEC, 1989) Level 42--Guaranteed (Cassette Single): Guaranteed 7" version/All She Wants 7" version I'm not sure what I paid for these things any longer, I'm thinking $3 apiece for the vinyl and $2 apiece for the cassette singles (shipping and padded envelope not included). If you want the whole she-bang, I'll send it to you for $15 (I pick up the shipping and packaging--US only!!!). E-mail if you are interested. Give these little goodies a happy home! Shuf John Shuford Department of Philosophy University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1295 (541) 346-1054 shuf @ darkwing.uoregon.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Whiskey/Freedom A Go Go From: angelina rogero Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 12:55:01 -0700 (PDT) "Whiskey she takes me. Love's an open door....." I laughed when I saw that Doug White replaced the 'freedom' in Freedom a-go-go with 'whiskey.' (Unless there's an unknown mix of this song?) You see folks, the 'Whiskey A Go Go' is a club that bands play at in LA/Hollywood (same thing) and there is a huge difference between that song and that club, it just made me laugh to hear it put together like that. I just had to comment. Angel ------------------------------ Subject: out-of-phase listening From: "Richard J. Reddick" Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:02:24 -0500 (CDT) I'm gonna stick my neck out and purport some techno-knowledge... Has anyone experimented with connecting your speakers "out-of-phase?" This is a trick that I learned trying to learn to play Beatles songs. I think you connect the positive terminals as usual, but you connect the negative leads together. Most records give you a karaoeke (sp?) effect--it takes out the vocals. Sometimes it takes out a lead instrument, too, so you often get a totally different sound. I like to listen to SATS in this method, because I can hear the guitars more distinctly. Also you can hear Mike's backing vocals at the *front* of the mix! It seems that many Digesters are techno-dudes (and dudettes), so forgive me if I'm advocating a method for ruining your speakers or whatever, or if I explained it wrong. I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried it. It's really cool to sing Mark's parts and have Mike on the backing vocals! Rich ------------------------------ Subject: Dom Miller/Al Murphy/Al Holdsworth/Jakko mystery... From: "Richard J. Reddick" Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:02:35 -0500 (CDT) Okay, now I can't stop writing... Here's a question: I'm also a huge Sting/Police fan (and I hear that Level 42 once opened for them in Germany. Whatta gig!), and I thought it was a really cool coincidence that Dominic Miller was almost a member of the band! Dom is credited with guitars on SATS and Guaranteed. My question is, what tracks did he play on, and which ones did Al play on for SATS, as well as which did he play on Guaranteed, and which are Holdsworth's? Did Jakko play at all on the album, or does his face grace the cover For No Good Reason? I think someone once mentioned that Mark played guitar on "My Father's Shoes." What's the deal with 42's guitarists? Can anyone tell me who played what? Thanks--Rich. ------------------------------ Subject: Holy Grail, Holy Cow . . . From: matthew rice Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 20:29:52 -0600 > I hate the title track lyric, "Holy grail, holy cow..." My roommates would tease me for hours about these words, and then someone on the digest explained their significance in terms of the phrase "I wanna live forever now" and album title "Forever Now". It has to do with the legend about the ability of the holy grail to bestow eternal life on the beholder (or person who drinks from it?) and the sanctity of the cow in hindu religious belief. Perhaps someone more knowledgable about hinduism could explain this connection a little better. Maybe a genesis for the hindu religious symbolism comes from one of Mark's favorite bands, Mahavishnu Orchestra, whose name is derived from a hindu source. Someone else better step in and explain this, I am already in over my head . . . Anyways, I love "Forever Now". It is now my second fav. tune behind "A Floating Life". I play FN over & over & over & over -- I'm sure you get the idea. I used to own a fender rhodes electric piano and would just pound the thing for hours to this tune. It is a good mix of funk, motown, pop, etc. . . Probably the best thing about it is the horns. I challenge anyone to suggest a song with better horns by L42 . . . I promise that one doesn't exist. Several interesting things are done by the trombone in the closing phrases under Mark's singing "twenty thousand million years, til the whole damn thing disappears " The trombonist uses a plunger mute and makes the sound do wop do wop do wop, do wop do wop do wop . . . Cool sounding stuff. Thats it for now. ______________________________________________________________ | Matthew T. Rice | | | Graduate Research Assistant | || | | Mail Stop D462 | || | | Los Alamos National Laboratory | |||| | | Los Alamos, NM 87545 | ----/ \---- | | | -------| @ @ |------- | | phone: 505-665-3610 | -------| \__/ |------- | | fax: 505-665-3285 | ----\ /---- | | organization: EES-13 | |||| | | location: TA-3 Bldg 1516 Room 106 | || | | e-mail: mrice @ lanl.gov | || | |_____________________________________|________________________| ------------------------------ Subject: Found some "new" Level 42 CDs From: "Nathaniel O. Wells" Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:33:57 -0400 Hey everyone! I was cruising through CD NOW, and checked out the Level 42 selection on a whim....... hmmm, they've re-programmed it, looks different...... WHOA.....two different CD singles for "Something about You"......... It seems that Polydor has released some "new" Level 42 material... namely, "Physical Presence" Live CD now has the 3 deleted tracks on it, and "World Machine" now has all of the re-mix tracks from the maxi-cassette....like Hot Water, Love Games, and the SISA mix of Something About You. Check it out if you are interested....... Nathaniel Wells Comics NOW! http://www.comicsnow.com nwells @ intrex.net -Remember, Spunkmeyer, the muffin king of the Triangle, does it better. ------------------------------ Subject: religion 42/world peace songs From: DonZipf @ aol.com Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:33:13 -0400 (EDT) > On a trip back to Blighty in '95 I got FN, very nice, but not my favorite > (man, I need guitars!). I hate the title track lyric, "Holy grail, > holy cow..." But Rich, the song "Forever Now" is a philosophical statement for secular cosmologists (like me - that's why I love it so). The use of the traditional coloquialisms "Holy grail, holy cow..." followed by "I just want to live forever, now!" adds a point of tongue-in-cheek irony, with 'holy grail' and 'holy cow' being, not only popular expressions, but religious icons as well (the grail from Christianity, the cow from Hinduism). And, of course, the whole theme of the song is that there is no eternal life, so get on. To my knowledge, no-one in Level 42 is religious, and it would seem a bit of clever songwriting, if a bit of a dig at...ahem..."true believers." At least, that's my take on it - glad to hear anyone else's interpretation.... And on a similar subject, I see that a movie has finally been made of Carl Sagan's only novel, Contact, and it stars Jodie Foster as Dr. Arroway! It's a real shame he died before it was completed, and I hope that they didn't screw it up! Contact is one of my favorite books, and it always pissed me off that Sagan's idea was ripped off for the beginning of that piece of trash Independence Day. Also, I don't think anyone mentioned it, but "It's Not the Same for Us" from WM is definitely a 'world peace' tune. "As history fades away..." Z. ------------------------------ Subject: Theory 101 in the real world From: rcol @ ix.netcom.com (Randall L Collins) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:03:20 -0500 (CDT) ** Forgive me fellow digesters for this rather psuedo-intellectual display of quasi-Level42 related dialogue between myself and Matt Rice. Future endeavors of this sort will be privately discussed in the future.** >> I don't think L42 (yeah, that's Level 42, Steve!) :) used >> a lot of modulation. > You need to go back and do some listening. I would guess that at > least 1 out of every 2 songs contains some kind of modulation. > Perhaps we should privately discuss what the word modulation means. I do believe I indicated in the last digest that I would have to sit down and listen to some L songs to hear this. From what I can remember, I don't think they used a lot and you're most likely correct about his but I will see. >> I think a better and more prominent analyzation of Levelmusic >> would be musical format (binary, tercery, sonata, rondo, etc). > Form & Analysis textbooks don't use the word 'tercery'. The word is > 'ternary' -- a three part musical construct of the form aba or aba'. > I thought I would correct you for your use of the word in previous > digest postings (3/11 & 3/13), but the third time is the charm. Not > trying to be a punk about this, it just doesn't feel right to be > corrected musically be someone who is in the same sentence making a > terminological faux pas. What I will say is that I've always had some Freudian brain warp about 'ternary'. Even in college, I wrote the word 'tercery' much to the demise of my professors. I know the definition, I just subconsciously spell 'tercery'. My problem. >> I don't see what a formal music education has to do with using >> complex modulations. > I must be missing something. A formal music education is one of the > only places to learn complex modulations and complicated theory. How > many of your fellow musicians can tell you what a common chord > modulation is and demonstrate one for you? You would be surprised how many non-musically trained musicians can do that! I've been in bands while in England where musicians could do that and more. >> I'm sure the boys didn't compose their music with certain harmonic >> and melodic theories in mind. > Go back and listen to 'The Chinese Way' [ I hear many digesters > yelling and screaming NO!!!!!!!!!!]. Mike starts the song with a > series of chords introducing the title phrase from the melody line. > These chords are based on two musical structures associated by western > societies as being typically asian. The first is the dominance ... Well, you can explain this well but it sums itself up to this... > Perhaps it was just a coincidence that their choice of musical > scale/form matched perfectly with the theme of the song. I say it like this: Perhaps it's coincedence that the chords/scales they used in writing this song (and in others) happen to fit known theories of composition and structure. > Of course they were thinking about musical theory when they wrote the > song! I'm confused...again, Matt. First you hypothesize that if the boys would have had formal musical training, they would have used more modulation, especially complex ones. Now you're saying that they were thinking about musical theory when writing the song. I personally don't know if the boys have had any musical training or not. If they haven't, which is what you more or less conclude, then it's coincidence that what they wrote out happens to fit many musical theories. Were they conscious of it? Without formal training, no! Where does their "theory" come from? > Also, listen to Kouyate again. I don't have this piece so I can't comment on it. Even if what you're saying about their method of composing and playing this piece is true (and I'm sure it is), without formal training, they wouldn't "know" what theories they were using. They did what they did because it sounds good! Sure, maybe they have very basic ideas about theory but certainly not enough to know that a certain passage is built on a lydian or mixolydian scale. > Beethoven had an extensive music education, primarily through the > private instruction of the most prominent organist/composer in his > region, Christian Gottlob Neefe. Beethoven studied music formally > from the time he was a child. Beethoven never had a formal education as we have. Yes, he did study with Herr Neefe and even with Franz Joseph Haydn, but Beethoven said that he learned nothing from him. As far as having lessons from his grandfather? Hmm, I wonder about that. There's very little about Beethoven's grandfather instructing him in music, at least in Thayer's Life of Beethoven (the Beethoven bible). His father? Well, it's pretty obvious that Beethoven did have instruction on the piano from his father, a father who wanted him to be a child prodigy like Mozart. Since this didn't happen, he took the opportunity to show his disdain by abusing him. Not only physical abuse, but psychological abuse as well. Beethoven's father was a drunkard and a whore chaser who would, on many occassions, wake up Ludwig in the middle of the night to make him practice the piano until the wee hours of the morning. Lessons, huh? Oh well.....lessons in life, perhaps. I am a classical music composer. There are many aspects of theory that apply to composition (mostly format). I've composed many piano sonatas, string quartets, and other chamber works, all using the proper musical structures. When I write these works, I don't take a melodic minor scale or two, a basic harmonic chord structure, add a sprinkle of mordents and trills, and call it a "work". It works the other way around! That's how it works for a majority of musicians. Have you ever listened to a piece that was so musically structured and theorized right down to a semiquaver that it had no soul? Plastic music is what I call it. It might get an 'A' in music class, but it sure won't stir up any emotions. A lot of modern jazz in our Western society suffers from this tripe. I listen to jazz and other music that's exciting and interesting, not something that's been carved out of an Advance Theory Course Book. Don't let your theory dictate your music. Let your heart do it. The theory will be there. I know I have talked to you before Matt but in all honesty, I have a much greater appreciation for you and your musical knowledge. You're the man, in my book! - From one opinionated musician to another :) ***Sorry everyone!! I promise talk like this will be done privately in the future**** I can hear everyone saying, "And I thought his minidisc talk was bad!" :> Right, then! Randall "This is an ex....parrot!"