From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V96 #269 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 96 : Issue 269 425 subscribers Today's topics: Love Games (again) Nigel Collier Luker lurkers Christopher LUKER Re: Level42 Digest V96 #268 Rob Crossland Re: Honorary brits? Rob Crossland Films, buckets and more.. Marcus Bone Physical Presence Whistle, Stevie lolita Found a home . . . DHL42 Frustrations Daniel James Re: Level42 Digest V96 #267 Jeff Grous Angel: Bach's Past Lives John Edward Martin Shuford Level 42 license plate! TZSONOI Re: videos, cover tape JennCyn New A. Holdsworth CD in the U.S. rl moore King is UK's best...but who else? Mike Wiethorn King For A Day Bruce_Conrad ATTN: Lisa Nimz Zaphod Beeblebrox New Subscriber WLonote SNL? and AYGB wrholley ------------------------------ Subject: Love Games (again) From: Nigel.Collier @ ncl.ac.uk (Nigel Collier) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:58:40 +0100 Sorry for banging on about bass riffs repeated in Love Games intros but I listened to PP Live last night and noticed that between the Dune Tune riff and the Past Lives riff Mark also plays the riff from the bass harmony in the middle of The Essential on Influences - anyone else catch that? Also, any takers for the debate on respective levels of competence within the group ie. was Mark a better bassist than Boon was a guitarist etc - what do those on the Digest who play drums/bass/guitar/keyboards etc think? Mark has arguably been one of the most innovative bass players since Larry Graham, what are the achievements/status of other band members? Nigel "Own up or grow up or be something in this world...don't be a carpet - 'cos being a carpet gets you nowhere" - Clive ------------------------------ Subject: Luker lurkers From: cluker @ worldnet.fr (Christopher LUKER) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:10:42 +0200 Eric was right, there are alot of `lurkers' out there, but how many Luker lurkers? I`m trying not to be, but what with the time difference and all (I`m in France if you remember) I don`t get the digest the same time as the rest of you American-based Levelheads. Well anyways, the answer to my question is 2(not 42). The other Luker lurker is my bro Dave, who let me know about the digest.Come on Dave, post something! Tell everybody about your Level42 collection (alot better than mine). Well that`s all for now. ps. I got dibbs on Leaving Me Now for Cover 42. I do a killer instrumental version! ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V96 #268 From: Rob Crossland <100535.3535 @ CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Sep 96 07:58:21 EDT > It is a little frustrating at times however for fanatics [like myself] > when friends say "Oh you like Level 42...yeah, I remember them back in > the 80's, Something About You and all that...yeah, good group" and I > really want to say, "yes that was OK but there's much more to it, just > get a load of this..." and play them some early stuff. Tell me about it Nigel!! I often get into a "but all their (L42) music sounds the same" argument with mere mortals. Cos as you pointed out they heard RITF and HIMH on bloody TOTP! But is you can get them to listen to some earlier stuff then they (not always!) sometimes have to concede the point. To us levelheads the music is wonderfully creative and different with multitudal themes and melodies, to lesser mortals it can be "samey" (but then that's the whole point anyway - we are a bunch of people who share a common interest in the style and workings of a particular group of musicians). I keep battling on! Rob -- For the glory of battle is the myth on printed page -- ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Honorary brits? From: Rob Crossland <100535.3535 @ CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Sep 96 08:12:49 EDT Just a thought and not strictly L42, but.......how come a number of our american contributors got so into the British 80's pop scene? As I remember it (yeah I'm getting old too - nearly 30!) it wasn't that good! (or was it?) China Crisis for instance, good music, solid enuff group but I didn't reckon on much exposure in the US. Are you all (generally speaking) in a particular geographical area that made it easier for BritPop Version 1.0 to be accessible? For example who if any current British Groups do you listen to now? You may argue over the word "pop" but at that time there was quite a cross-over from pure Pop (ABC to Tears for Fears) to indie (China Crisis, The Mission, The Cure) and the rest into the pop scene. Just interested, Rob ------------------------------ Subject: Films, buckets and more.. From: Marcus Bone Organization: Kingston University (Science) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:33:04 GMT0BST Hi everyone - I'm back from my hols - spent last three hours(!) trawling through the digests - still only on 224. Here's my thoughts on some of the stuff thats been aired:- 1. Film - Ok Rutger Hauer as MK, and Pete Sampras as Mike (But hes not strictly an actor is he) - but heres the some of the supporting cast:- Boon - Richard E. Grant John Thirkle - Jon Cryer (Pretty in Pink etc) Gary Barnacle - Tim Vincent (Blue Peter - UK tv show) I'll put some more up as I think of them. 2. Bucketheads - Most of you probably know this but there is a "song" by the bucketheads called Time And Space - which rips off a massive sample from Starchild, its the B-side to "Got myself together" which is basically a ripoff of the Brass construction song of the same name. Personally i think they're both crap , but TIME AND Space is bearable for the l42 bits. Note - If I sample the first ten seconds of a song, loop it endlessly, put a drum sample (say Funky drummer) in the background, then maybe add a keyboard chord or a female vocal sample here and there - does it make me talented, does it make me a "composer/songwriter"???. 3. Zaron - did you get that cd I sent you??? 4. I think all pilgrimage type invitations are open to all. 5. Last thing - I have the seven inch of overtime - the b-siode is ATGD - but I can't for the life of me hear the guitar solo at the end - anyone else have this problem? Anyway more soon - later Society Against Mail Signatures (Affiliated to the Ritual Humiliation Network) ------------------------------ Subject: Physical Presence Whistle, Stevie From: lolita @ interserv.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:38:59 -0700 > Look at some of the GIANT names from the 70's funk era and compare their > material of the 70's with their material of the 80's. Even Stanley > Clarke and Stevie Wonder became softer and less distinct - producing > more synthesized love ballads than anything else. Amen! Stevie Wonder's only great album of the 80's was Hotter than July. Characters has to go down as his worst album ever. Plus, I Just Called to Say I Love You??!! Give me a break! > Next, I'd like to thank (will not mention name) for pointing out the > whistle on the Physical Presence CD. I never noticed it before. Now > it's all I hear. Thanks! Sort of like the congas in Heaven in My Hands :-). > Now you must realize Jeff, that whistler is probably on this Digest!! That is probably true. > Also, where was that "Past Lives" bassline in "Physical Presence?" It > sounds different to me! I agree. I've never caught that either; the only place I hear it is the Love Games solo on the Physical Presence cassette. Maybe that is what the person was referring to. Lastly, Pat Flanagan: where are you? Lolita ------------------------------ Subject: Found a home . . . From: DHL42 @ aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:31:38 -0400 Hello all! To say the digest is a Godsend would be an understatement. And if it weren't for a fellow levelhead from the UK (thanks, Rob), I would never have known it existed--I suppose that's the bane of the band's existence in the states! :) Anyhow, I have arrived and am more than happy to be here. I hope my comments, however crazy they might be, will be received with all the generosity I have seen as I've lurked since #261. With that said, HELLO! As a lurker, I've seen a lot of questions and prompt answers. The question on my mind is WHERE DID ALL YOU GUYS FIND ALL THIS MATERIAL? I mean, living in Massachusetts leaves a lot to be desired music-wise unless you live in Boston, and then you love a group that's so underappreciated that finding anything requires a call to the Pyschic Friends Network. When I heard of AYGB I almost fell off my chair, and when I read about NAMM and many of the other live performances and the reissues, I must admit I drooled. If any of you fine chaps could e-mail me about any material, including covers or ANYTHING rare, I will be more than happy to pay any price. Yes, I am rabid. :) Little bio: 26, L42 fan since WM, though I've managed to collect all the U.S. albums, sans Early Tapes. Found FN at Tower Records in Boston as an import, and I found "Fait Accompli." Guess you could say I was having a good day. :) Couple of things--I heard mention of L42 on SNL . . . exactly where my fascination started! . . Jimmy Breslin episode. Oh, yes . . . happy to be here. My lurking days are over. BTW--fave album "Standing in the Light" Once again, hello, hello, hello! --Mike ------------------------------ Subject: Frustrations From: Daniel James Organization: Statistical Sciences Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:54:14 -0700 > It is a little frustrating at times however for > fanatics [like myself] when friends say "Oh you like Level 42...yeah, I > remember them back in the 80's, Something About You and all that...yeah, > good group" and I really want to say, "yes that was OK but there's much > more to it, just get a load of this..." and play them some early stuff. Yes it is frustrating, but at least it sounds like people recognize the name Level 42 when you mention it. Very few people I know remember or ever knew of Level 42. The only reference I have for people that jogs the memory is SAY. Of course then I get the typical "Oh, you mean another one of those one-hit-wonder bands?" in response. That is frustrating! > [thanks for the kind comments on the search engine... FWIW, when I use > it myself, I often don't even have to fetch the whole digest message > since the relevant text has been displayed directly by the search > results. This is one of the benefits of going through *all* the Digest > archives _by hand_ and splitting them up into logical paragraphs... a > huge pain (still have 40 digests left!), but worth it! -Eric ] Well, your hard work is obviously paying off. I really liked it that when I searched for a word (in this case, Connoisseur as I was looking for references to the new remix album) -- I didn't have to read the entire digest to find what I was looking for. The relevant paragraph was retreived for me, and a hyperlink was created so I could just click to download the entire digest if I wanted. Anyway, thanks for all your efforts. And I think I'll go order that album now... ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V96 #267 From: Jeff Grous Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:15:44 -0700 Marc writes... > AHA! Finally someone notices that bloody whistle-blower! That's the first > thing that caught my attention, esp. during the Chant has begun .. wriiiii > I hope this guy suffocated after the concert due to a whistle in his throat. Oh, it was the first thing I noticed, whenever it was I got that record way back when- haven't played it much over the years because of that bozo. I'm surprised that no one in his immediate vicinity in the crowd didn't take him out. >> remember hearing a cassette version that I did not notice the whistler... > That will probably be owed to the tape deck, not the re-issue ;-) Haha, no, the deck was fine- . It was a long time ago that I heard the cassette version, and I remember thinking that the whistler was absent or much reduced- and surmised that the record had been remixed for cassette, and while they were at it had paid more attention to minimizing spurious, obnoxious crowd noises during the actual performances. >> I'm really glad I found the Webpage and the newsletter... > Huh huh, it seems to me he just found the Digest too late ;-))))) True- but better late than never. I have purposely avoided the Internet for years because it's a giant black hole of vanishing time... Since I'm 280 issues of the newsletter behind, what I'd like to do sometime is put my discography (no doubt pathetic compared to alla you LevelHeads here) up and have everyone tell me what I _gotta_ have, get opinions on recordings and performances I don't own, videos, etc... And of course, sources (or possible sources) for obtaining same. Everybody game for that, or all you all gonna laugh at me? > about my CD-R projects: it's just for my own use, and if someone wants a > copy of my CD, then this is possible... I'd be interested in knowing about your CDR projects! Vince Mora writes: > Yes!... [but] I felt that _Guaranteed_ sounded really horrid ... I don't think it sounds as bad as SATS, but I agree, the sonics are not what I would like them to be. As you say, FN is an improvement and is a good recording in its own right, but it is not as good as the days of old... > My reference standard will always be the debut album, though. Awesome > recording. Absolutely- the one unfortunate thing about that record is that it is one of the earliest CDs- and as such it's got those "laser beam highs," bright enough to burn pinholes in your eardrums! Playing it on a modern player makes a huge difference, though. >> Another thing...on Forver Now, are the arrangements. > Well, I like it, personally. Just the natural change & evolution of > the band's style... I dunno, it just blows me away that anyone would not > like earlier stuff, or not like later stuff. To me, you can hear the > band's energy, talent and spirit in *either* style. It's all L42 to me. Well said. I agree that the newer works are as great and as valid as the older works, and I play all the records about equally. I, too, would find it a bit odd that someone would like one and not the other- but people do listen and hear differently from each other. On a personal basis, I prefer the earlier works for a number of reasons, but I love and play it all! Sean writes: > ..."Staring at the Sun" has some good ballads (Man)... Oh! Man is an AWESOME track- other faves from that record are Over There, and Two Hearts Collide. > At first listen I was somewhat turned off by Forever Now (both versions). > I really felt it was very different from any of their previous work. > However, after listening to it a few times I find it is one of my > favorite L42! Just as you say, for entirely different reasons! It is very different. But it has rapidly turned into one of those, "Oh, man, I gotta play that AGAIN!" records. I've also played it for a buncha folks who didn't know about it- and they're all after their own copies as well! Well, if I don't go to work, I won't be able to pay my phone and Inet bills- and I won't be talking to you folks...! Until next time... -Jeff ------------------------------ Subject: Angel: Bach's Past Lives From: John Edward Martin Shuford Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Angel: Thanks for pointing out that it was Bach & not Mozart that had been pilfered. I was trying to pull it off the top of my head, and not knowing classical well AT ALL, I made a gaffe! Now, what part of the Past Lives bass line is the same as the Physical Presence one? Well, the bassline that starts at the very beginning of the song "buh-buh-bih-bumhp, buh-buh-bih-bumhp, buh-buh-bih-bumhp buh-bih-buh bumh". Hate to get all technical on you like that! :) Now, I just listened to the live version of Physical Presence (again, the song and not the concert). It's not a perfect match, so I apologize, but there is something very similar in Mark's groove to the Past Live groove. Perhaps it's more about the syncopation rather than it matching up note for note. So I stand corrected in part (perhaps more). Thanks for pointing these out to me. As for Model Friend/Lessons in Love, Model is considerably slower and cuts out some of the complexity of Mark's Lessons line, but imagine listening to a 45 of Lessons played on 33 speed, and I think that's where you would hear a similarity with Model. ------------------------------ Subject: Level 42 license plate! From: TZSONOI @ Harding.edu Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:37:31 -0500 (CDT) Domo Domo! It's been a while since I posted anything on this digest. It's really nice to see this digest growing!! Wow 426 huh? Anyway, Mr Lyle!! (or whoever it was) you are not the only soul in this world that has LEVEL 42 license plate!! Yes, I have an Arkansas (why? only God knows) plate LEVEL42 on my 92 Honda Civic Si! (I'm selling this car in order to get money for engagement ring and for NEW ALEMBIC MARK KING SIGNATURE BASS!!!!) And I'm darn proud of it! Everyone ask me what the heck is Level 42 and I have to answer this question to inbreded rednecks all the time! Anyway, does anybody owns Alembic on this digest? I'm gonna have to order mine from Alembic and I've never played one. If anybody can tell me how those Alembics play, I would really appriciate your help!!! Anyway, any Japanese on this digest???? See ya! Takeo "the flying thumb wanna be" Sonoi ------------------------------ Subject: Re: videos, cover tape From: JennCyn @ aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:51:32 -0400 From Winston: > Hello all! I just stopped by the Virgin Megastore in Times Square and I > noticed that they have the following videos in stock: > 1. Live At Wembley > 2. Family Of Five > 3. Level Best > Sadly, "Fait Accompli" was nowhere to be seen. If anyone MUST have the > original video tapes, send me a shout. Last time I was in Blockbuster Video, I checked the master directory of Every Domestic Video Still In Print, circa 8/23/96 -- Live at Wembley, Family of Five, Level Best, and Fait Accompli were all still in there. So hopefully any decent store ought to be able to order them. From Art: > If any of you haven't heard "Cover 42" yet, you really ought to get in > touch with Bill Wilson. Not only are there some great performances on > the tape, the packaging even looks more professional than many store > bought cassettes! Stellar effort guys!! Which reminds me........... Bill, my Cover 42 tape is still coverless. ;) (To everyone not at Levelpalooza: he'd brought copies of Cover 42 for everyone, but the packaging wasn't done at that point...) Off to Suncoast Video to look for a bunch of stuff..... tcoy, -- Jenn ------------------------------ Subject: New A. Holdsworth CD in the U.S. From: rl moore Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:43:29 -0600 I just saw the new (U.S. release) CD by Allan Holdsworth "None To Soon" in the stores here and was wondering if anybody out their has heard the import or U.S. version yet, and could tell me if it's worth picking up. I read on his web page "Atavachron" that the drummer is not G. Husband but Kirk Covington and that this is more of a straight ahead jazz CD unlike his earlier works. If anybody has heard it, please tell me what you think. Thanks -Royal ------------------------------ Subject: King is UK's best...but who else? From: Mike Wiethorn Organization: Kirkwood Community College Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 15:48:00 -0500 Hi Levelers---- Some friends and I were talking about great bass players the other night.......in the U.S., Verdine White, Nathan East, and Bootsy Collins are considered the best. Over in the UK, King is the only one that stands out in my mind........anybody else over across the pond that belongs on the list? We also got into an argument about King's playing style.....I say he's a definite "thumber"/overhand player. My friends say he's a "plucker"/underhand player.....whaddya you guys think? C-ya, Mike Wiethorn Cedar Rapids, Iowa ------------------------------ Subject: King For A Day From: Bruce_Conrad @ hphc.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:29:58 -0400 FWIW: there is some CD-Recorder info @ http://www.araltd.com/ or for text only price list email their autoresponding price list mail-bot at: prices @ araltd.com ARA, Ltd. (817) 654-1539 I have no connection w/them. I haven't even checked the web page! Bill-I'd like to call Covers tape #2 - 'King' for a day. I'd like to cover 'Running In The Family' with my 'band'. I'm still waiting for my copy of Covers #1, AYGB-CD, and the SATS poster that I won. (not to complain or nothin') Someone recently asked about netiquette and all that stuff...For those who don't know, everyone on this list is supposed to have been a member of Level42 at one time or another. ~ myself, I was the backup drummer during a 2 day tour of Mozambique in 1986. :) ------------------------------ Subject: ATTN: Lisa Nimz From: Zaphod Beeblebrox Organization: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Inc. Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:15:54 -0500 Hey Lisa, I recieved your letter. However, you didn't give me your email address! Later Zaphod ------------------------------ Subject: New Subscriber From: WLonote @ aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:09:26 -0400 Hello. I am a new subscriber to the digest, and I wanted to introduce myself and contribute a thought or two. My name is Wes Hodge. I live in Tallahassee, Florida, age 27, and a professional (well, at least I get paid to do it) musician. I think the work of Douglas Adams is a fine place from which to adopt your band name ( I suggested the No-good Dumbo Nothings and the Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters as pretty keen band names, but I was vigorously outvoted). I, like many others, I trust, started listening to Level 42 in 1985 with the release of "Something About You", and have since acquired a fairly complete collection of their works. From my perspective as a bassist, the band has been tremendously influential to me. Even though the music I perform now is very different (more of an REM, Toad the Wet Sprocket type vibe), I'm greatly indebted to Mark for his stellar playing. Just a thought on this old school/new school dichotomy that's bouncing around the digest. I'm of the opinion that the two "phases" of the band's existence (for my own purposes, I'd draw the line after Physical Presence and before World Machine) have different but equally valuable things to offer the listener. The early work has more to offer from a virtuoso standpoint, and the band oftentimes would stretch and explore within their songs (I dare anyone to listen to 43 on the eponymous album and not be tremendously impressed). The later work gives me the impression that the band was coming together as songwriters and putting together more consistently excellent, tightly packaged songs. Someone in the last digest referred to RITF as a "low point" for the band; I would contend that, although the playing (esp. Mark's) had become more understated by that time, some of the material (e.g. Children Say, Two Solitudes) was among the best songwriting the band has ever produced. Off the subject, can someone comment on the version of "Foundation and Empire" on The White Funky? Sounds like the tape ran out, the sound guy took a minute or so to change it out, and then creatively edited the last minute of the song on to the first two minutes. Thanks for listening, and sorry to wax so long on my first visit. Wes Hodge (WLonote @ aol.com) ------------------------------ Subject: SNL? and AYGB From: wrholley @ burgoyne.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:28:21 -0600 As far as the band performing on SNL...I never saw it. There used to be a show on Friday nights (not "Fridays") back around the end of 1986. It was a comedy/variety show in the same vein as SNL. The band appeared on it sometime in the fall of 1986. They performed Something About You and Lessons in Love. In fact, it was the first time I heard L I L. I managed to get a cassette dubbing of it but missed S A Y. And, does anyone have access to a cd-r that is willing to make me another copy of As Years Go By. I have recently converted a brother to the band. He heard mine and is in dire need. WES the good man in a storm PS My wife gave birth to our first last week...a girl. I wanted "Tracie" but the wife said no. I'll keep trying. 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