From: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) Subject: Level42 Digest V96 #179 _ ____ _ ____ _ _ ___ // //__ // / //__ // /__// __// //__ //__ \\_/ //__ //__ // /__ D I G E S T Level42 Digest Volume 96 : Issue 179 361 subscribers Today's topics: Remixes Collection? M. Robins Stevie Wonder's Black Man lolita Re: B-sides CD and more Lars-Ove Karlsson My Take on Holdsworth WJGreer Re: Level42 Digest V96 #178 wendell t. sellers Various stuff Paul McKernan - proc_dev why I don't like Hot Water egoss Allan Holdsworth/Gary Husband Daniel James Talks about Mark Jay Tracy Fan Club Tape of '89 Gig. Paul Hammond (Fwd) Re: Stickire Activity michaeldamianjeter Funk--A Quote with a Definition michaeldamianjeter ------------------------------ Subject: Remixes Collection? From: "M. Robins" Organization: the University of Greenwich Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:11:06 GMT Hi all, Yesterday in the Virgin Megastore in Croydon, I got a rather tatty looking copy of " The Remixes Collection ". I presume that this is the Remixes 11 album that has been mentioned. It was very cheap actually, although my CD player was playing up so I haven't listened to it yet. Live at Wembley is very good, I think. The only criticism I feel is justified is the one mentioned the other day, concerning the rather obvious editing, and Tracie, World Machine and Bass Solo omissions. Oh, and Mark's painfully corny intro to the Chinese Way. It's Cabaret time! Still, Sam Taylor didn't mention any of this, so he must have been talking total tosh after all. Listen and enjoy. Tattoo Man PS. Loz, I was really getting into your epic narrative on the digest imagining ourselves on Mark's lawn, chanting " who knows what they know " etc. Then you interrupt it by saying you were only joking. You've spoilt my fun now. ------------------------------ Subject: Stevie Wonder's Black Man From: lolita @ interserv.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 05:45:22 -0700 I thought I was the only one who noticed that the bassline to Black Man was similar to that of Hot Water. Black Man, for you Stevie neophytes, is a song from Songs from the Key of Life, probably one of the best all around albums of all time. Speaking of similar basslines: all you Stanley Clarke fans - ever notice that the bassline from Heathrow is almost an exact copy of that from Lopsy Lu (a song from Vulcan Princess)? Lolita ------------------------------ Subject: Re: B-sides CD and more From: "Lars-Ove Karlsson" Organization: IAR Systems AB Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:50:41 +1 Wow, just got it, it sounds great, in fact I can here better on this than on my vinyl singles, when and if the live and remixes CD's will be made, I will certainly order a copy, even if I have the tracks already. I would also like to get in touch with the person(s) that made the cover for the CD, since I got a black and white copy of it. I would like to get the files for the cover to try to make a color copy of it myself, if it's possible. This CD sounds way better than the one I had made for myself, although the CD-R used in that was cooler, with a blank front instead of 3M whatever it said on the B-sides CD. Anyway, thanks for a great job John. Keep us informed on any plans for the other CDs. Also I liked track 13 on the CD, short by funny, I wonder where I've heard that before :-) I also stumbled on a promo copy of the Live at Wembley CD, it's times like this you wish a CD is longer, when you compare the CD and the tape from the fan club and notices the two songs missing from the CD, World Machine and Tracie, we need a CD with room for 100 minutes or so. How about some more info on the Remixes 2 CD, like catalogue number. It always makes it easier for me to order the CD when I have as much information as possible. Hot Water, I must say that it is one of the most played L42 tracks at home, along with HIMH and TSGD, mostly because I like to play along on those tracks, although I do play along with the other tracks too. /Lars-Ove -- e-mail: love @ iar.se Murphy's laws on technology: To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer. ------------------------------ Subject: My Take on Holdsworth From: WJGreer @ aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:52:24 -0400 > "see, I can make my >guitar sound like a saxaphone" sound. (Guess you can figure my take on AH.) You know, Pat, I couldn't agree with you more. I realize that Holdsworth is a very accomplished guitarist, and I have a couple of his recordings, which are decent. But he belongs in Level 42 about as much as Rob Halford would. Just a complete stylistic square peg. When I first heard that he played on "Guaranteed", I was excited that maybe this association with another significant music name would kick start Level 42's careers. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I really don't like that kind of guitar work in the Level 42 context, though. Flame away, anybody - I'd be intersted to hear the other side of this. Later, -WJG ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Level42 Digest V96 #178 From: tazion @ twsu.campus.mci.net (wendell t. sellers) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) I think the songs of L42 make you think about thing in a new light. Take the song 'Heaven In My Hands'. You can really get alot out of this song. My wife was still stationed in Korea and I had to leave for hospital in Washington, D.C. and I told her that I will always think about her until she was back in my arms. Just listen to the song and you will see. tazion P.S Can someone get in contact with Mark King and tell him to get in contact with me got some songs for him to look at. ------------------------------ Subject: Various stuff From: paulmc @ sinbad.nsc.com (Paul McKernan - proc_dev) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:26:18 +0100 I'm catching up on the last few digests, sorry about the length...... Regarding.... > Also a thought I had after listening to/viewing a bunch of Level concerts, > in "Living It Up", since the World Machine tour (or RItFamily), with Mark's > lines of "I don't want to got to war---said I need to love someone" he never > says "before the Atom bomb" anymore. Most of the time he just throws in an > agressive-type "huh!". Wonder why. Each time I saw them live, Living it Up was always the song the crowd enjoyed the most. At this line in the song, he always stops and lets the crowd sing it. You'll probably hear the crowd take over if you listen to it closely. Also.... > Holy Cow!! Paul!! I have to disagree with you on that! "Children Say" is > NOT crap. > I find it very cool song. Cool bass line (it's THE first bass line I > learned..) and cool singing by Mark and Mike. I agree that "Shapeshifter", > "Sandstorm" and "Hot Waters" are very very cool and funky! Phew! I'm dodging the bullets on this one! I knew I'd cause a storm when I said "Children Say" was cra.. sorry.... substandard! I agree it has a cool bass-line; strangely enough the first one I could play as well, but I just think the melody is so tame, especially Mike's chorus. Granted it shows another side of the band, it's just not the side I like. (I think the video of Children Say embarrasses me more than anything!!!) At the risk of causing another storm, I feel much the same way about most of the Running in the Family album. "To be With You again" has always made me cringe. Dont get me wrong, though, RITF has some classics (e.g. The Sleepwalkers, Freedom Someday. It's Over.) > What do you think about "Seven Years"??? Paul???? "Seven Years" is truly a classic; I agree that Mark should play fretless bass more; I love that fluidy (is that a word?!) sound. I once read an interview with him when Guaranteed was released, and in it he said that for that song he didn't use an actual fretless bass, but used one of his old basses, ripped out the frets and filled in the gaps using Polyfilla!!!! Fave song on Guaranteed still has to be "She Can't Help Herself". Whilst we're discussing songs, here's an idea to the good people who put these digests together. Each week, why not put forward a Song of the Week for everyone to discuss? I've seen this on other mailing lists and it generates a lot of interesting debates. As a suggestion, the first Song of the Week could be.... "LOVE MEETING LOVE" (quite fitting, since it was their first single) And finally..... > Way, but I love Hot Water and have you heard Stevie Wonder's 'Black Man'? - the > bassline is very similar to Hot Water - and they don't come much funkier > than Steveland. I rest my case. True, very true. Steveland Morris is definitely a funk-master. I thought that when I first heard "Black Man"; the bass lines are really similar. Also, for those of you who have heard of the British band Living in a Box, has anyone else noticed how, for their single of the same name, they totally ripped off the Hot Water bass line!!? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ "Gonna be some changes, gonna be some sorrow. We badly need them, To make it through tomorrow..." ------------------------------ Subject: why I don't like Hot Water From: "egoss @ skidmore.ED" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 11:26:32 EDT I got in "hot water" for expressing distaste for that song. Here's my problem with it. The groove weighs it down to the point that it distracts from the song itself. It sounds like what would happen if you tied a beached whale to the bumper of your car and then tried to drive it. I'm not the only one who feels this way. The Rolling Stone Record Guide (for what it's worth) says that True Colors "stumbles a bit in its attempts at Eurofunk." ------------------------------ Subject: Allan Holdsworth/Gary Husband From: Daniel James Organization: Statistical Sciences Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:27:31 -0700 > Again, where do I get a job where I can say that what I've been doing sucks > and I'm going to take time off and start over? I'd say that just about any job where you don't actually get paid until the job is completed. :) > We went around about this awhile back. I do remember hearing that AH played > on, like, four songs, and, without knowing definitely, I say they're "Seven > Years", "A Kinder Eye", "She Can't Help Herself", and "If You Were Mine". > They all have that grating, spine-rattling, whiny, "see, I can make my > guitar sound like a saxaphone" sound. (Guess you can figure my take on AH.) I'll have to pop in Guaranteed again and take a closer listen. I have to say that I share that take on AH--I have a few friends who are big fans, and I borrowed one of his albums (Atavachron) which is okay, but I really don't care to listen to it very much. For one thing, he's using a SynthAxe instead of a real instrument, and for another, I also don't care much for Gary Husband as a drummer (he plays on about half of this album, and it shows). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel James - Database Administrator djames @ statsci.com Data Analysis Prod Div of MathSoft (formerly StatSci) (206) 283-8802 x284 ------------------------------ Subject: Talks about Mark From: "Jay Tracy" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:35:20 -0400 (EDT) > if the "material is too angry" story is true, who are you to say it's a BS > story? Pat, I didn't mean BS as in not true, Loz's info is some of the best we've had (although from his last post he *is* showing signs of mental decline ;-) ), it just seems a bit weird. I can see maybe into the writing and preliminary recording he would find the songs not right (or "too angry"), but upon working and working on it and going so far as to shopping it around (with little luck I guess) *now* it's not right. Just seems funny (and disappointing). > Being a "content producer" myself (though it's not music, it's websites > and interactive multimedia), I know the feeling of completing a project, > letting it settle, then looking back at it and feeling like it's a piece of > crap. I agree, throughout the years I have written and recorded music, illustated several pitctures and written dozens of stories. A great deal of the stuff I'm unhappy with. The pursuit of excellence, which I imagine Mark being very into, is a constant state of (maybe) being _too_ hard on our own work. So I too very much understand what you are saying. > but he's got a wider audience to think of, and he can't afford to release > anything less than excellence at this stage in his career! Neil, I think the best Mark feels he can do he should release. I am just far too fearful that maybe he was thinking some of those same thoughts (maybe not getting a label to release it provocted), so now he is going to try to write "hits", even though in just about every interview with Mark he does his "we're not trying to write hits, we wouldn't even know how to go about it" stuff, I truly think they (almost) always were trying to write said "hits". I hope I am wrong. Wow, it's nice having a conversation on a subject other than "the Chinese Way" sucks ;-) Kill ugly radio, ..jay Copied from letter by: Level42-request @ worldmachine.com (Level42 Digest) ------------------------------ Subject: Fan Club Tape of '89 Gig. From: Paul Hammond Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:26:58 +0000 Hello friends, Where can I get hold of a copy of the fan club tape of the '89 live at Wembley gig? I bought the new CD and excellent as it is, I was a little disappointed at the lack of a gratuitous bass solo. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Subject: (Fwd) Re: Stickire Activity From: lordabay @ nyc.pipeline.com (michaeldamianjeter) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 03:13:02 GMT >----- Forwarded message (lordabay @ nyc.pipeline.com(michaeldamianjeter)) -----< To: stickwire-l @ netcom.com Subject: Re: Stickire Activity From: lordabay @ nyc.pipeline.com(michaeldamianjeter) X-PipeUser: lordabay X-PipeHub: nyc.pipeline.com X-PipeGCOS: (michaeldamianjeter) X-Mailer: The Pipeline v3.3.0 On Jun 14, 1996 12:41:57, 'kevinb @ bismarck.gtri.gatech.edu (Kevin West Bowman)' wrote: > >Chris, we're out there, but we're just not been very talkative. I'm *very* >interested in your funk bass lessons and I enjoyed your previous postings. >Make your lessons as long as possible. Personally, I think this is what the >StickWire is all about. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on what >might be called "groove"-oriented funk bass. In other words, playing bass >lines on the Stick that aren't necessarily "busy" but really make you, well >*move* in a funky kind of way. Here, here! too many people have the idea that funk is simply pop&slap. The Groove is the thing! As many of you know, I am originally from New Orleans(NO). I am going to begin some quotes from an article "Gotta Have That Funk, " by Scott Aiges, which appeared in the July 16, 1993, "Lagniappe" section of the NO Times Picayune(Lagniappe is a Friday insert that tells you whats happening artistically/entertainment-wise around NO for the weekend) The event was the "Classic Funkfest," which included The Bar-Kays, Bootsy Collins and His Rubber Band featuring Bernie Worrell, The Ohio Players, War, and Zapp featuring Roger(Troutman). The first Quote I'd like to list is from one of my favorite bassists, George Porter of The Meters and of his own Runnin' Pardners. " 'Unnecessary desires,'Porter said when asked to define funk. `Unnecesary feeling.' He explained: `Funk is about syncopation. Most music is written in a downbeat form, on "one" or on "two" and "four." Funk is syncopated, meaning you play on "and." Sometimes you play against the beat rather than on the beat. Say the backbeat would be on "two" and "four," you would play on "and"-two and "and" four.'`I would consider that to be unnecessary. In other words, downbeats would be considered a necessary format, and playing on the "ands" of things as being unnecessary'" Aiges then writes, "So now I know why Art Neville[of the Neville Bros. and Meters], when the Meters start getting really, really hot, will say: `We're about to get unnecessarily funky, ya'll." The article contains other Quotes by James Brown, NO drummer Earl Palmer(credited by Dr. John as first using the term "funk" in a musical context) and an extended dicours by George Clinton. While these are not useful interms of music theory and the like, they do show you an attitude which I do not hear in many supposed modern-day practioners of funk. Let me know if you want more. -- michael damian jeter Dept. of English, Kingsborough Community College, Brooklyn, NY Chapman Stick player-in-waiting Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself (I am large, I contain multitudes)-- Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself" ------------------------------ Subject: Funk--A Quote with a Definition From: lordabay @ nyc.pipeline.com (michaeldamianjeter) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 03:48:26 GMT If you notice my headings, I have sent this message to two lists which I belong to. Let me introduce you to one another. Stickwire-l @ netcom.com is an interactive list devoted to the playing of an instrument called the Chapman Stick. Level42 @ worldmachine.com is a digest devoted to discussion of a band called Level 42(fans of L42, btw, are called LevelHeads. LevelHeads, meet the Stickists. Stickists, meet the LevelHeads:-) Both lists have some threads on the musical style known as "funk." In the last Level 42 digest Neil Percival stated, But having said that, this debate will rage forever, because I'd love to hear a definition of what is or is not 'funky' - it means different things to different people. Can anyone offer a dictionary definition? Has the word ever actually been defined? Another quote from Scott Aiges' "Gotta Have That Funk"(New Orleans Times Picayune, July 16, 1993) is from New Orleans drummer Earl Palmer. Aiges writes, "Dr. John, who knows a thing or two about funk and all its mystery, credits the New Orleans drummer Earl Palmer with first using the term in a musical context. Palmer told me that, contrary to what I believed, funk "has nothing to do with syncopation or time structure." "`Funky,' he said, `is an idea.' An idea of something that stinks." "At a recording session [in New Orleans] in the early '50's, Palmer tried to get the other cats to play with more feeling. So he reminded them of a drunken fool they all knew named Foley." "`Play it funky,' Palmer told his bandmates. `Play it like Foley smells." "`They're calling it funk because its dirty music,' Palmer says now. The word refers to `a very base, primal kind of feel. Not so strict and not so regimented. . .with a little bit of abandonment, not so much by design.'" Those of you who have read my earlier quote from George Porter will notice a contradiction between the two, and yet, so similarities. I should probably mention that in the article, the Palmer quote comes before and is right next ot the Porter quote, so this contradiction is shown plainly. Enjoy. -- michael damian jeter Dept. of English, Kingsborough Community College, Brooklyn, NY Chapman Stick player-in-waiting Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself (I am large, I contain multitudes)-- Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"